December 9, 2020

Listen to this episode where myself and my business partner Dave have a fireside chat around starting a market-leading business from scratch as we attempt to build a new company together.

Find out –

  • How to grow a business from the outset to do more than simple survive
  • The biggest lessons and mindset shifts you need to make to start thinking like a CEO
  • How to create faster traction from your new venture. 

Useful Links:-

Follow Dave and Rugged Rides on Instagram  –

Book a Call with Jen  –

Send your emails to

Available on Apple iTunes, Spotify & Stitcher (Just search Expert Unrivalled Podcast)

Read Full Transcript

Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format

[00:00:00.145] - Jen Hall

This week, I'm speaking to my business partner, Dave, on how we are starting to build our market leading startup.

[00:00:15.485] - Jen Hall

Hello and welcome to the experts unrivalled podcast. My name's Jen Hall, your business positioning and market leadership expert. And in this episode, I am speaking to my business partner, Dave, who is currently starting up a new business with me and Andy, who are part of Market Leader League. So I'm really, really excited to dig into a conversation with him around all things, starting a new market, leading business from scratch. And I've already run an episode on this in the past, but I thought it would be really interesting to actually speak to Dave himself, who is new at actually running a business and hearing it from his perspective, from a from a non-business knowledge point of view, how it how it really does feel, how it feels to have that team around you to help support you and take you through the motions.

[00:01:06.395] - Jen Hall

Because something we discussed during our conversation is that, you know, some people never really get off the starting blocks. You know, they they might sort of get their products out there. They might actually start making some kind of money, but they never truly grow. And so we have all of the market leading intentions for this new start up. And I thought it would be great to share that with you.

[00:01:27.605] - Jen Hall

Before I dig in, I just want to give somebody a shout out now.

[00:01:31.655] - Jen Hall

I hope I'm giving the right person a shout out here because their name as well as always on iTunes, it's like a pseudo name, worry freedom.

[00:01:39.005] - Jen Hall

Now, I do think that this is possibly the lovely Jason Broxson, who is runs a company called Worry Free, who she absolutely is. It's just the kindest soul. And she helps other women to declare to their minds and free themselves from anxiety. So I just want to give her a shout out because she's given me if it's her.

[00:02:02.675] - Jen Hall

A lovely, lovely review. And if you're listening to this and you're actually like, no, it isn't Josie, it's me. While Josie, you've got a free shout out because you're amazing anyway. And if it is you, it's somewhat different.

Please do let me know. Email in. So if you ever leave me review, make sure that you email in to let me know who it is that has left me to have lovely reviews so I can make sure that I can shout you out on the podcast.

[00:02:24.515] - Jen Hall

Anyway, Josie I think says guaranteed to motivate you. This is my favorite podcast when I really need a kick in the right direction, absolutely packed with actionable advice which cuts through all the fluff. Thanks so much, Jan, and it's my absolute pleasure.

[00:02:38.645] - Jen Hall

I absolutely adore this podcast and delivering all of this juicy information to you, because it's you know, it's it really does like me not being able to create content for you. So my absolute pleasure. And thanks so, so much for leaving the reviews. They genuinely help to keep the the podcast in the charts to make sure more and more business owners can access it. So thank you so much from, you know, for me, for your kind words and also for others.

[00:03:01.895] - Jen Hall

So please do make sure, you know, to leave me review if you're enjoying the podcast and make sure to email me afterwards at So that I can see who you are and give you a lovely little shout out and let me know what you do and who you are, just so I can make sure I can do that.

[00:03:18.995] - Jen Hall

Anyway, I'll stop rambling. I'm going to start the interview with Dave in just a moment before I do, one last quick reminder that elevate as it stands, which is a high touch.

[00:03:31.385] - Jen Hall

Twelve month one to one program that helps you go from where you are now to market leader level. I'm changing things up in the New Year, so I am going to be removing some of the ones one supports and creating amazing, you know, a portal of the learning experience.

[00:03:48.785] - Jen Hall

There will still be someone to one in there. But just to let you know that that things will be changing up in January. So if you are looking for a high level of one to one support for next year, starting potentially in December, if you wanted it, then you do need to put in a call ASAP, because as soon as Christmas is over, all of that offering will be off of the table. So if you've been coming and asking about this, like, do I don't I do I don't I and you're serious about making things work next year, then please make sure that you could

call with me.

[00:04:17.105] - Jen Hall

The call is in the show notes, but you can do that via a and you can call in to discuss whether it's the right offering for you or not. It is a high level investment, but is a high level of return. I've just had one of my amazing clients, Sharmini Giuliani, who's just hit a 25 K month super, super tough for her and, you know, much more to come. I've got the seven figure coaches on my books as well.

[00:04:44.945] - Jen Hall

I don't just work with coaches. I have other service based businesses I work with as well.

[00:04:48.755] - Jen Hall

So, you know, a varied range across different industries, but all for the same goals, elevating your position in the markets, getting you to be that one number one choice in the market place.

[00:05:01.985] - Jen Hall

So without further ado, make sure you book that call. And here is the amazing interview with the lovely David Carpenter.

[00:05:11.485] - Jen Hall

And here we have the wonderful David Carpenter, also known as Dave, to me here with us. Thanks so much for joining us. Good now. Pleased to have you here. So, as I said in the intro, Dave works for a track here in Towers, but he's also my business partner as we started our journey to create a new start up called Rugged Rides. Dave, tell us where the passion has come from, from creating rides?

[00:05:40.105] - David Carpenter

Well, yeah, Rugged Rides has been. So that's how I ended up in the adventure travel industry, which is I love the outdoors, but one of the ways I love to travel in the outdoors is on the bike like I love my motorbike. It's like the greatest tool ever given to me as a kid, you know?

[00:05:53.225] - David Carpenter

And, you know, and during my experience with every track and being in these crazy places and stuff like that, you realize that actually these are these are like perfect for riding your motorbike. And so the idea came to me, well, adventure holidays on a motorbike, but it just kind of makes sense.

[00:06:09.655] - Jen Hall

It was a perfect marriage, I reckon. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah.

[00:06:13.655] - Jen Hall

So Rugged Rides is a completely new venture for for all of us, really. And as always, like in our track, I'm known as the lesser spotted Yeti. I just really want to point out, guys, that I have literally no interest in riding a bike whatsoever. But I am interested in the business side so that I guess that's kind of like why I'm here and why I'm on board. But, Dave, you you're kind of the founder of this company and you started this.

[00:06:39.265] - Jen Hall

Yeah. More or less on your own in terms of the idea. Yeah. How did it progress for me to be coming on board with this?

[00:06:46.345] - David Carpenter

Well, like when you said that, you know, you've got, you know, no real sort of interest or draw in mountain bikes. Well, I have no real knowledge or anything about business, but, um.

[00:06:56.215] - David Carpenter

But I really did, you know, have a had a belief in a strong passion for the idea. And I knew that it was the right sort of push.

[00:07:04.615] - David Carpenter

It could become something. So but then I initially decided that I was going to do it on my own, which, you know, I'm on this journey in real time here, by the way. So in 12 months, some of the things I even see today, we might not even be friends.

[00:07:19.015] - David Carpenter

But back then I had this idea and obviously we're friends. I was able to talk to you about it and stuff like that. And, um, and I quickly, quickly realized in about a four minute conversation that I would not be I would not be able to do it alone. Yeah. There's so much that I didn't know about business and launching a business particularly. I mean, I came in to sort of have a track and it was already, you know, had his feet on the ground.

[00:07:41.215] - David Carpenter

It was moving. It was a thing. It was an entity. So it was very easy to fall in to have a track and think I knew how it all works. We're actually it's one thing to be able to drive the boat. It's another thing to build it. Yeah.

[00:07:52.445] - David Carpenter

And I think that's when I quickly realized that, you know, a passion for something and an idea is one side of things and it's an important side of things. But actually, particularly in the beginning, maybe the first year is probably the least important of all things because it only takes a second to create, you know, the spark. And it's there. It's exists. It's everything it needs to be. But the work, the running of the business and with all the heavy lifting that has to be done is something that, you know, you can't know.

[00:08:22.705] - David Carpenter

Yeah. Unless you've done it or you have someone teaching you.

[00:08:26.695] - Jen Hall

Exactly. And I think that's I mean, we're not saying that every business should have a business partner who is a business coach because I mean, this is kind of like a great partnership and it works really well together.

[00:08:36.745] - Jen Hall

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:38.185] - Jen Hall

It all kind of works out really nicely, but it is something to say around getting the right people on your team and hiring the right people. You know, in terms of a track, genuinely have a track would not be where it is today without Dave. You know what he brings to that? You know, to our companies. Just you know, you've almost made yourself like an essential part of it. So, yeah, exactly. There is absolutely no way we could ever lose you because you know, you just you were invaluable.

[00:09:07.555] - David Carpenter

And when you have that marriage of different people within your team that can you say take those different parts. I got no interest in books. You know, you're not you don't have any interest in business. I've seen you kind of really take that, you know, spark actually just going off on a bit of a tangent here.

[00:09:22.555] - David Carpenter

But I mean, we love tangency. Yeah. We could go on forever. But talking about specifically around becoming more entrepreneurial minded, I have noticed that there has been a marked difference in your kind of not work ethic makes it sound awful, but in the way you approach things and how you are becoming a lot more business minded and business savvy do what do you think about people who were just kind of passionate about what they do without getting involved in the business side of things?

[00:09:57.775] - David Carpenter

Do you think that that's possible and may be possible? But it is certainly limited. I think. I mean, you can have an idea and it could be a simple idea and you may not be business savvy and you may get a few customers, and you might make a living out of it. I think those type of people and businesses, you know, that might be all they want and that's great. And I think you're more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightning than turn that small little idea into something big and huge.

[00:10:27.675] - David Carpenter

Because, you know, the world of business is really its own world and its own. It has its own workings and its own rules and its own methods and things like that. So in order to really sort of become a fixture in your industry, you know, you really you have to know those rules and you have to know which ones you can break and which, you know, how you can put a business together.

[00:10:48.495] - David Carpenter

And that's something that I'm learning. And actually, the process of learning how to sort of run a business is actually becoming a bit of a passion as well. Like, it is very interesting and it's very fun to see something that you that was nothing becomes something. Yeah, but in my personal experience, I don't think you could do that very easily on your own if you don't at least have a guide in hand to kind of point you in the right direction because you don't know what you don't know.

[00:11:13.535] - David Carpenter

Yeah. And I thought that I knew enough. And actually, when I was enlightened and I was told actually this, this and this, I was like, that would have never and I didn't have a concept. Yeah. That's how those worked, you know, like having, you know, the lead magnets and sales funnels and all of this stuff.

[00:11:30.495] - David Carpenter

Like, if you don't know, you don't know. So you need someone to tell you how a business works and how you can get customers and how you can keep customers. And just like to ride my bike did not qualify me in that aspect.

[00:11:44.175] - Jen Hall

And now I totally agree. And I think the thing is, it's like I have built businesses from a passion in the past and it's quickly lost its passion.

[00:11:53.175] - Jen Hall

When I when you don't make enough money out of it, you know, when you lose that ability to really thrive and make a living, a good living out of what you know, what you're doing, it really does take out the fun. And, you know, you can actually end up ruining a long lived passion that you really love because you're not actually making any money out of it. So I do think it's really important that you have that.

[00:12:15.735] - Jen Hall

And I really like the point you made around becoming a permanent fixture in the industry. And it's so true. I think there's one thing, you know, just like earning a living and there's another thing about creating a living and breathing business where you can grow a team and really, you know, expand in that industry to become something that is noticeable out of everything out there. So I'm just gonna take the conversation in a slightly different direction, because something that we are always keen to do in general and is make things as unique as possible.

[00:12:47.385] - Jen Hall

And obviously, we're still finding our feet with that, that. Can you kind of talk us through some of the elements that we've kind of gone over already that make rugged rides a a unique entity?

[00:12:57.345] - David Carpenter

Yeah, well, it's one of those things where it's actually I think it's like if you scratch the surface, there's so many different elements of make advice, what it is and what it's becoming. And it is still evolving. Like when I came and I said, oh, Jen, you know, because I knew you'd be interested in what was called business idea. I might try. I'm going to ride my bike up Kilimanjaro. What, you think that was it.

[00:13:16.215] - David Carpenter

And I almost expected Gentzkow to be brilliant. Dave, you'll make millions. But actually, you know, there's a lot of things that we've actually put together. Even the name rugged rides, you know, wasn't something that we just pulled out of thin air. And it actually had to be teased out of me. You know, we talk about even like the landscape, the countries, the things that we're going to be doing. And then there's lots of different things like, you know what I what you have to decide what level of customer service you want to provide.

[00:13:41.415] - David Carpenter

Do you want to be like a sort of distant business owner that sort of separate from his customers? Or do you want to be all in? You know, and we decided and we know what works with abstracts. You're going to be all in. And that really is sort of what I think is going to make Rugged Rides loans different. Is that sort of because initially when I remember the beginning of every track, all my knowledge tends to come from abstract.

[00:14:04.035] - David Carpenter

But we had a it was me and Andy and it was like a small thing. And we used to try and we used to wonder, like, how is this going to work when we've got a thousand customers? How can we maintain that level of customer service? And it's those lessons because we achieved it. You know, we are way more than a thousand customers a year. Yes. And we're and if anything, our customer service is better.

[00:14:23.175] - David Carpenter

Yeah. You know, and create a community, which I think is something that's really hard to do. Because how do you just gather a load of people with like minded interest to you, how do you become the center? Yeah, I know I'm waffling a little bit, but these are all things that I know look at, right. Are going to be we've had to sit and discuss because again, it's a grand idea. I'm going to create a community.

[00:14:45.465] - David Carpenter

Well, how do you do that? Well, there's a whole business mechanism behind that idea. Yep.

[00:14:49.335] - David Carpenter

About gathering people, you know, channeling them towards your information, towards your company. There's no way you can do that by just existing. Oh, no.

[00:14:58.995] - Jen Hall

100 percent no. And I think yeah, you're right. It's around, you know, looking at that scalability of how you're going to take those personal ideas and automate them, how are you going to bring them and then expands. And we know we've done that and have a track with the hiring the right team members and making sure that we're all living, breathing the same kind of values and our approaches and that customer service. And that definitely has is something we've talked about on the podcast as well as around, you know, how you can start out just by doing the basics for doing them really, really well.

[00:15:28.005] - Jen Hall

And customer service is something I think a lot of companies don't really pay enough attention to. And I think something else that's really interesting that we're bringing from ever track is something that we always get commented on is how amazingly friendly and how we're a great community, but also how professional we are as well. I also think, for instance, in the adventure travel industry, professionalism is sometimes something that can be lacking. I don't know whether you agree.

[00:15:51.885] - David Carpenter

I totally agree because there's that tendency to think of it as like Yo Radman or Everest, you know, and that sort of that sort of attitude. And it will get you so far and it might make you some friends. But actually, you know, it all goes back to what we said at the beginning. Do you want your business to just be its own little small thing with a small sort of circumference of people that usually what you want to become a fixture and you want to become known and you want to become an actual behemoth of your industry where people know why abstract, yet they're the guys to go to.

[00:16:22.005] - David Carpenter

Yeah. And you get that by it does come down to customer service and how you treat people. And another thing is you can't do that if you sort of burned out and fed up. Yeah. And so by having the best sort of processes behind and the best values and the best people all drive in that one idea forward, then you will you know, I think it'll make a big difference. Yeah. Is one of the things about Rugged Rides when we talked about at the beginning, like you were like, well, what is going to be a customer service policy?

[00:16:49.005] - David Carpenter

How are you going to deal with people? Do you want to be like a backseat kind of guy who sort of has the ideas and or do you want to be fully involved? Because if you want to make something sort of like whatever Trek is, you have to be involved. You have to be all right. You can't you can't sit back.

[00:17:05.445] - David Carpenter

Yeah, but this is why I realized, looking back, I foolish I was to think that I could have done it all on my own. Yeah. I mean, I might have been able to, but it might have turned to a one to three year journey to profitability into like a ten year journey. Yes. Because I would have had to go back to school, you know, to learn all of this. And that's why I think having someone like yourself I mean, I'm lucky I got you as a business partner, but even if I didn't, I think having someone like you there to at least say, this is where you going wrong with that do.

[00:17:36.055] - David Carpenter

That's why that's not working. This is what you need to do in order to get that amount of customers, because we know there are templates for this. I haven't reinvented the wheel. No, exactly. But what we're going to do differently is how we run the company, how we treat people, the community aspect. And you'd be amazed at how many of those sort of nice, fluffy ideas have like an actual infrastructure of business, of software, even.

[00:17:57.255] - David Carpenter

Oh, exactly. All of that stuff that has to be working and taken along in the background, because if you don't have it, you will get burned. Yeah. Yeah. Will be fed up and like and I won't have an interest in running anymore.

[00:18:07.695] - Jen Hall

Yeah, exactly. And I think I mean, you're not on your own. You know, we've literally all been there. I've been in business since I was nineteen years old and failed miserably for the first year because I didn't have anybody like myself. You know, the my fortunate position is, is I've made a lot of mistakes in my own. I failed a lot, which is actually made me realize where I've gone wrong, which I can now help my clients with.

[00:18:30.375] - Jen Hall

But, you know, my turning point was getting my own business coach, getting people's eyes, experts in their field. He knew exactly what they were talking about. And you described it perfectly. They're sort of looking at where you're going wrong and analysing why things aren't working in order to make them work better. It's just invaluable. You know, I've invested tens of thousands of pounds into that knowledge, which combined with my failures as kind of brought me to where I am today and say that I can help other business owners as well.

[00:18:59.865] - Jen Hall

But you're definitely not on your own in terms of feeling like, you know, I don't like you said to me earlier, you don't know what you don't know.

[00:19:05.985] - David Carpenter

Yeah, well, exactly. Yeah. I mean, that is the I mean, it's when you start out on a business on your own, you are sort of going in into the you know, I speak mainly in analogies. You are going into this dark ocean. You know, we're only about a five foot radius of light and, you know, and how are you supposed to find land or strike gold in those circumstances? You just can't do it.

[00:19:25.395] - David Carpenter

Yeah, and a lot of it. And I think that this news of. Entrepreneurial search over sort of because it didn't exist, you know, when I was like when I was really young, I was taught, you know, you to school, you got exams and you go to work for somebody who those people were.

[00:19:42.575] - David Carpenter

You don't know that companies exist. And actually now since I've had my sort of eyes opened and since I've been working forever track, you can see there's actually there's whole communities of people, entrepreneurs who are just surge in this business. And one of the things to come out of that, I suppose, is like business coaches, people that have been through the mill, been chewed up and spat out and then back in again. Yeah. And came out with lots of lessons to learn and I think.

[00:20:10.675] - David Carpenter

To you know, they you always have a product, you know, like the product is my life experience, you know, because I can almost sit back and I can watch what someone's doing from afar and almost see that they're heading for the cliff. Yeah.

[00:20:23.725] - David Carpenter

And to be able to hire someone to sort of intervene and say, actually, Dave, take a left by here may be for you in the long run is great because like I said, you don't know where you don't know. I don't know that there's a cliff at the end of that road. I don't know if I'm wasting thousands of pounds on stupid ads that don't work.

[00:20:41.185] - David Carpenter

And, you know, the target is all wrong and stuff because I'm lucky that, you know, you've worked all that out.

[00:20:47.845] - Jen Hall

Well, you know you know, they say you've lucked out, but now want to say there's like there's so many of my clients this year who have, you know, thanked me personally around stopping them from doing things that were going to end up being detrimental because we can think things are a great idea at the time. But without that foresight of knowing where that's actually going to take you, there are things that, you know is just last week we recorded a podcast around you.

[00:21:10.285] - Jen Hall

They were creating new programs all the time is actually hurting your business. There is an unusual concept to get your head around. So I said, well, hang on, how would being more creative and how creating new things hurt anything. But you absolutely can. But without that experience, what you think is going to be a good thing to do actually sometimes isn't. Going back to the the uniqueness. There's something else that we were working on. I'm trying to hint to you, like whispering the like Dave the trip and this, you know, being unique.

[00:21:41.065] - Jen Hall

And we've mentioned the other ways. And, you know, for me, I was describing this kind of cocktail of elements that you bring together that creates this unique brand. And we're bringing us as rugged rides, becomes a sister brand to have a track. We're bringing a lot of those things over. But in terms of being unique, it's really important for me, for any business that I'm working in has something that's really stand out. And I know that there's a specific trip you've created, which we believe no one else is offering at the moment.

[00:22:08.155] - David Carpenter

Is that right? Talking about Kilimanjaro, I am talking about imagery. So there's something so I've been to the topic of a GIROA and I know how hard it is. And I know on the slopes of Kilimanjaro, there's some really prime real estate for mountain biking. But, you know, nobody has ever thought to go to the top. I mean, it's been done. We're not going to break new ground here, but we are going to break new ground in the fact that we are going to be pretty much the first company I know in the UK at least, who's going to be guiding climbed to the summit of Kilimanjaro on a mountain bike.

[00:22:39.415] - David Carpenter

Yeah, and I'm really excited and positive about that because like you said, I suppose that is kind of like one of the jewels in our sort of crown is that we are going to be groundbreaking, but we're going to be groundbreaking in the right ways. You know, like you said, you know, you can you know, you can keep throwing, you know, blindfold yourself for darts at a dart board, which is almost, what, like new creation.

[00:23:00.925] - David Carpenter

You create a new kind and you got it. But it's not actually targeted and not doing anything. But one of the things where we can be really creative is with this trip, you know, because I am really excited about it. But one thing that it does do is, you know, if you are going into sort of a pre-existing market, it is very difficult to try and find something new that no one else is doing ten times better than you already with a big, huge

budget and stuff like that.

[00:23:22.975] - David Carpenter

So being creative about what you can offer, it has been really key. And then I think having a passion for what you do. And this is where the passion being, I suppose, does help them with the two melded together make a business is because you kind of think to yourself, well, actually, why not? Yeah. Why can't we successfully go people to the summit of Kilimanjaro on a mountain bike? Why not? I mean, there are certain expectations that people have that, you know, are probably going to be challenge when they do it, you know?

[00:23:48.805] - David Carpenter

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:50.755] - Jen Hall

I mean, you know, I'm really excited about it. And I think, you know, it's those kind of, like you say, the jewel in the crown of, you know, we're groundbreaking and, you know, how do you in amongst other companies, do doing a similar thing make that stand out, as you say, having that creativity you like? So you're not necessarily breaking new ground? It's been done.

[00:24:08.785] - Jen Hall

And, you know, thank goodness, because otherwise we don't want to be taking a ton of customers out there here and surprise.

[00:24:13.795] - Jen Hall

And the good thing about, you know, and again, just to make everyone aware that whilst rugged rides is a start up, we are leaning on a ton of experienced suppliers that we've both used for a track, you know, and people that we absolutely trust. So whilst the company is new, the company is not new to doing their specialism. And I think that's also key. A key point to make for for those of you who are looking to start perhaps a new brand is to remember that just because you're a new brand doesn't mean you're new to your skill.

[00:24:45.355] - Jen Hall

Like, you know, Dave is so knowledgeable. And one of the other unique elements that we're going to bring to market rights over from our track is that preparation element, making sure that everyone knows exactly what they what they're doing before they go. They feel totally confident that it's achievable and manageable and they can get excited rather than fearful. And that's something that, you know, Dave is doing and is

currently extracting. So much information from your brain, like I'm here, just going, yeah, just just write this blog, just do that.

[00:25:14.975] - Jen Hall

And he's the one that's actually having to do most of the work here. So I'm going to give you full credit for that.

[00:25:20.605] - David Carpenter

Well, yes, but, you know, you had to go mining for it. Yeah. Like, it's one of those things where you don't. Again, I didn't know what knowledge I had would be valuable and what isn't because I've never personally put it to use before. I've never tried to sell my knowledge to someone else. But I think having someone to be able to guide me and explain, like actually do the things that, you know, it used in this way can actually yield this and then that gives me OK, so I can just like that and then I can write something pretty quick.

[00:25:51.015] - David Carpenter

Yeah. And it is quite laborious at the beginning. You know, when you start out and you don't even have a website, you have nothing yet. You sit down and you have a conversation and your business is you someone else and a conversation in a room and then you think, oh wow, I've got so much to do.

[00:26:04.805] - David Carpenter

And it is like I likened it to, you know, you've got to when you go mining for gold, you know, you dig for a month and it takes a second to find it.

[00:26:11.895] - Jen Hall

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true. And I think it is really, really hard in the beginning because there is so much to do. And that's kind of what happens when I take on a new client generally, because we are, you know, even if it's a fine tuning or change of message and you've actually already created assets in the past, it's going to have to be translated across all of it. And it feels like a lot of work.

[00:26:33.995] - David Carpenter

But you're building things that can last. They're not going anywhere, right? No, I mean, that's it. I mean, and it is actually, you know, once you get past sort of even the halfway point, you know, you you start to feel seriously excited and motivated about it, because once it's done, then it's done. You know, you've struck gold. All you've got to do is link up a bit of software and it's out in the world.

[00:26:54.995] - David Carpenter

Yeah. And customers are consuming it. And then next thing you know, you've got a customer and the next thing you know, you've got ten and a thousand. So all of that work at the beginning, although it feels laborious, is probably it's the groundwork for everything. Yeah. You know, there's so many analogies I could use, you know. What do you think of a building that hasn't been built yet? It's just a pile of rubble and mud and steel and a plan.

[00:27:13.895] - David Carpenter

And then you go back a year later and it's, you know, yeah, it's like a Dubai skyscraper.

[00:27:18.425] - Jen Hall

And it is amazing to think like we were a really exciting point because we've done this before with a track. And, you know, it literally only feels like a blink of an eye since, like, our first customer was actually Dave.

[00:27:29.795] - Jen Hall

Yeah, exactly. Customer Zero was Dave. And now, like you say, we're taking well over a thousand customers, you know, each year and on trips. And, you know, we are you know, we're market leading. We're being approached by other leaders within our industry looking for collaborations and things like that, which is amazing. So we know that we've really made a huge splash in the industry. And it's exciting to think what rugged rides is going to do in the next year and actually how we're going to do it so much quicker, as you said, like condense that journey down, because, you know, not only, you know, I mean, Dave working together, we've also got Andy as well, who's part of market leader, who's also the founder of every track on board as well.

[00:28:13.985] - Jen Hall

So with all three of us together, and I genuinely do and and it's not here. It's the shape that he would he would lay testament to the fact that it is all about the team who you build, who you have with you that can bring the expertise and the skills to the table that you may not have. And having that and equally, you know, Dave is saying, look, it has to be mine. It had to be teased out of me for every business owner that I work with, every UNB us solid USPI that we create, every message that we create, every blog we create.

[00:28:45.365] - Jen Hall

All comes from the founders. It's just about articulating it in the right way.

[00:28:50.955] - David Carpenter

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that that is really crucial about the team and having the right sort of minds together on the business. Now, I know obviously we're in a little bit of a unique situation in which, you know, we can be business partners. But if one thing like this podcast can help people, if it reaches one person who's just search the word business on a podcast or something, and they've realised actually, you know, there are people out there, you know, they don't have to have a relationship.

[00:29:14.015] - David Carpenter

You know, there are people like yourself who can help people. If more people would gather, then, you know, there's going to be so many more awesome, exciting and unique businesses come through. Yeah, because I wonder, you know, I sit there sometimes. I wonder how many of them fail to get past the starting blocks because what you decide, you want to do it and you do the easy stuff, vegeta the Facebook name, you know, you get a domain name and then what you do with all of that.

[00:29:39.845] - David Carpenter

Yeah. So I think it is awesome, but I think the team as well, like I mean. I could not have done it without your cell phone, without Andy. I mean, even Andy helped me come up with the name. Yeah. Yes, sir. In the garden and talking about it and his method and things like that. He's super good at stuff like that when it comes to the big ideas, man. And then me and you sit down and you make me do all the hard stuff over your shoulder.

[00:30:03.235] - David Carpenter


[00:30:03.415] - David Carpenter

I get to come up with names for things with beer and have fun and go on trips.

[00:30:07.645] - David Carpenter

And then I don't know if you actually have to write this, you actually have to do something.

[00:30:12.085] - David Carpenter

I mean, I does it. I mean put in the right things in place. And even if you even if the other member of your team is a coach or someone like yourself, it's going to it's going to be hard. I don't know of any other investment or business that will give you such good returns, you know. Yeah. Because what the what it

returns to you is a business. Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:32.335] - Jen Hall

The return on investment is infinite because is what you you know, it's always a combination of, you know, the having that knowledge is great is what you do with it. If I said all this stuff and you did absolutely nothing with it, it's not going to happen. But when you've got you say when you've got that beautiful relationship between that passion and then the knowledge that you can fit together, it's amazing what you can do with it. And you'll say, right.

[00:30:52.375] - Jen Hall

Like, you know, I see so many businesses still on the starting blocks, 15 years in, and they just they just not grown. And and the more they grind and the hard work hits in the almost, they they're building their own kind of walls around themselves because it feels too hard to do anything more. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be you know, like I said, it's all about the team, about growing with that.

[00:31:15.565] - Jen Hall

I always use this in this analogy, this story that my mom used to say to me, he says a few times, but it's really apt to bring this up. Now, when she said to me, oh, you don't you don't want a mansion, surely it's going to like, you know, we'll think of all these rooms you'd have to clean. And I'm like, hang on a minute. If I'm earning enough to buy a mansion, I'm going to be earning enough to have several cleaners like you always forget that with gross doesn't necessarily always mean hard work.

[00:31:41.185] - Jen Hall

With growth comes the ability to build that team, to pull people together and to and to expand. You know, something that's always really scared me about Andy's, how he's always employed early. He's always got like he got offices early on, like we don't we just just the two of us. Why do we need, like, a whole office and stuff? But is something that he's always left room to grow because he's got that vision of growth. And I think that really is what determines our business, the idea that's just going to put it along and one that's one that's really going to really make it off and actually grow and become that market eating company.

[00:32:19.195] - David Carpenter

From your perspective, Dave, having your experience with a track and now having your new baby Rugged Rides, what do you believe makes the difference between these businesses that just kind of make it and the ones that are market leading?

[00:32:34.255] - David Carpenter

I think a lot of it can be done to sort of I mean, you talk a little bit about at the beginning about how you've seen a marked change in sort of my behavior going from sort of. Almost like it's a mindset change from whatever it was before to an entrepreneurial mindset, and that partially comes with education and partly comes from like like lifting those limiting beliefs, you know, and allowing yourself to actually with the right guidance and education, become as big as you want to be, because I know this analogy works well.

[00:33:05.125] - David Carpenter

But there was an analogy where if you get a baby elephant and you hankel its foot to a chain, oh, this is a horrific story.

[00:33:11.185] - David Carpenter

But I know that. But you know the one. Yeah. Yeah. It can't get the change. Yeah. And then when it's big and strong, it can easily pull the chain. But that has got the limited belief that it can't. Yeah. And to be honest, my chain for a lot of the time was just, was just a lack of a lack of knowledge and a belief that other people had successful businesses. Yeah. You know, they were incredibly intelligent.

[00:33:31.615] - David Carpenter

They were like, you know, Elon Musk's side of the business. I know I'm not in that category where actually that's a self-destructive sort of belief mindset that I had that that has been lifted by exposing myself to people like yourself and andI. Yeah. And sort of learning and just going through the process of learning, of learning the ropes. But also, I mean, there's many things I think that come into it. You know, I wish I had one snappy answer for what do I think would be like a little lifestyle business and what would be like a big success.

[00:33:58.885] - David Carpenter

But I think partially it's it's down to your self. Limiting beliefs is a big one. You know, the driver, the fame that has to have a strong belief in it and seek the right advice and get the right sort of knowledge base behind them and keep the passion alive. You know, I think one thing that I've learned from Andy a lot is I've never once seen as enthusiasm dip. No.

[00:34:18.415] - David Carpenter

You know, in all the and he is annoyingly positive, like through a situation where I'm like and I just need to be grumpy right now and he won't let you. And ultimately, it's it's proved successful. Yeah. I mean, like working with him, you know, but it's been a pleasure.

[00:34:35.975] - David Carpenter

Percent five percent percent annoying, 95 percent energy. Like I think like he's never once he's sort of unshackled himself of these like unlimited beliefs. And he's like, well, I want to be the best in the world. Yeah. And then when you a little tiny company doing like a few trips a year, you kind of easy to shrug that idea off. Yes. You know, but actually he never stopped believing. I never strived for it. And it doesn't matter if you fall short on a few occasions, you need to constantly strive.

[00:35:05.455] - David Carpenter

And that's his favorite question when we're talking about what do we need, we have systems and what do we need with this job? What would the best in the world be doing right now? Yeah, what would they be decided right now? And let's see if we can do better. Yeah. And I don't know many other companies that are in our industry that actually, you know, grew by the amount we did during during a lockdown and a pandemic.

[00:35:26.905] - David Carpenter

Yeah. I mean, I think we probably win the award on that one.

[00:35:29.695] - David Carpenter

Exactly. Like, how do you sell how do you sell trips abroad when you can't travel? Yeah. You know that that was the biggest question. Yeah. You know, and how do we how do we maintain as a business and how do we continue to serve our customers and serve the community? Well, we're not able to send them on trips. Yeah. And we have the company exploded you in lockdown. Yeah. And partially because Andy was like, well, a lot of companies now they're burying their head in the sand and everything down there looking at what they can cut.

[00:35:56.665] - David Carpenter

Yeah. We actually track looked at well actually what can we grow, how can we expand our presence and stuff like an opportunity to dominate site where you're hiding, where we're going to grow.

[00:36:05.605] - David Carpenter


[00:36:06.235] - David Carpenter

And that entrepreneurial spirit that like never say die attitude and combined with, you know, the knowledge of how to put these things together, you know, this is the thing, you know, you can never, never, never say die out. You know, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. But if you don't know how to physically build a marketing campaign.

[00:36:24.085] - David Carpenter

Yeah, yeah. And our funnels that we have that we will allow each quarter. Yeah, exactly. But but luckily, you know, the right team has been put together with yourself, with me.

[00:36:32.875] - David Carpenter

And I honestly I was amazed, you know, because I, I when I, it was mainly Andy and you self-drive in the ship and I was lucky enough to be a part of it. And I do feel like I was I was amazed, you know, far surpassed anything I could have hoped for.

[00:36:48.325] - Jen Hall

Well, in Locked and I think it shocked us all. No one knew what to expect because it's something we've never, ever seen before. So, you know, I think I think we all hope for the best. But when it went, you know, the best the best happened. And I'd like to pretend that it was I knew all along that I think even he was thinking we were all holding our breath. I think as a team, like just, you know, wanting the best.

[00:37:12.025] - Jen Hall

And I think I think that is also what plays testament. This is what is Andy's attitude. If he wanted to, he wanted the best, not just for the company to see us thrive, but he wanted the best for other people. He's quite a caring man. And he he wants to make sure that, you know, when people are down the dumps and they're all sitting in the houses getting going, never going to go travelling again. And we're going, you know, we're all going on the negative train.

[00:37:36.745] - Jen Hall

He's there putting the chain of no, guys, this isn't going to last forever. Everest isn't going anywhere. The. Ships aren't going anywhere. Let's plan like we've never planned before and may even create some epic traps. And, you know, and I think just from that passion and was saying, you know, it's not entirely driven by that. But I do think it makes a difference when you genuinely care for the people who say absolutely.

[00:37:57.415] - David Carpenter

I think that I think this I think that's key because I think if people like you for a start, they'll want to give you their money. Yeah, no one always helps and they want to stay with you and support you. But then I think, you know, there were some companies that you'd be unlikeable over doing the right thing. And that's where I think over a although we we do we do many groundbreaking things. And this is one of the biggest things that I've learned is, you know, we don't necessarily do the easy thing.

[00:38:19.525] - David Carpenter

You know, you have to sometimes we do things that require us to do way more than you think most other companies would. And a lot of times people come with a precondition kind of like, well, you know, I can't work Saturdays or, you know, I don't want to come into work late at night or stuff like that. But actually, we ask, like, what's got to be done to get it right. Yeah. To care for those customers.

[00:38:40.435] - David Carpenter

You know, we've all worked like, you know, during the lockdown when it first happened. And so we were all here, you know, up until midnight working out for customers and things like that. And I think that's testament to sort of the. Not only I think I heard one word that someone said, you know, the era of the professional businessmen is over and the entrepreneurs time is like, yes, and I think that's the difference.

[00:39:01.755] - David Carpenter

You know, where like in my mind, when I think of, like a businessman, I think of like Mary, Mary Poppins, you know, they're all in the bank and stuff like that.

[00:39:10.365] - David Carpenter

Very structured, very rigid, very hierarchical. Very cutthroat. Yeah. And where I think what we do and what I know we're going to do with rugby. Right. Is we're going to make it like we it's possible to do the right thing to make money and care for customers.

[00:39:25.155] - David Carpenter

Yeah. Why is it possible. And that's one of those you know, why isn't it possible? Why can't we care for every single customer as an individual, give them an individual level of customer service and still make money and still grow in a pandemic? I mean, if you set those parameters on any business, why many of them will go.

[00:39:40.695] - David Carpenter

But that's me. I'm done. Yeah.

[00:39:42.905] - David Carpenter

You know, it actually, you know, like making yourself do those tough things and having that sort of positive spirit. And one of the things, you know, and he talks a lot about that I've learned from and it's hard to really be impressed upon me because I was so resistant at the beginning. It was about mindset. And I think mindset is a big thing and it will drive everything. Like if you if you wake up in the morning and you can't be

bothered to work, you're going to do there's going to be substandard.

[00:40:05.895] - David Carpenter

And you really need to reassess why you can't be bothered. You know, if you're running a business and you wake up and you can't be bothered, then something has to change. And I don't think Andy's ever felt that. Maybe not even for like maybe in a fleeting moment. And then he's like, no, yeah, yeah. And you've got to get it. And I think that's one of the things that I've really learned about that is how to adopt that mindset and how to continually be thinking about what can I do better, what can I do better?

[00:40:29.355] - David Carpenter

What can I do. Yeah. And then also educate yourself with this is how I do better. Yes, because there's two parts to that, you know, what can I do better and then how do I do it. Yeah. And is the how do I do it that I think I've got the most benefit from as like as a founder of a company. Yep. You know, is that's the bit you don't see because it's often behind the scenes you'll see successful businesses on social media and you'll see posts and videos and products and things that look shiny, glossy and beautiful, and you'll see wealthy people running these businesses.

[00:40:57.465] - David Carpenter

And you actually have no concept of what happens behind the scenes and the mechanics and the hard work that went into creating that sort of, you know, business and lifestyle. Yeah, and I'm quite impressed, to be fair.

[00:41:09.825] - Jen Hall

You know, after seeing because I think a lot of people like having people that despite having kids, you know, when if you knew what you're getting yourself into, you probably wouldn't have them to do with the business side of things.

[00:41:20.895] - Jen Hall

You really you have see you've seen us at our best. You've seen it is our worst. And I think, you know, it's testament to you. You still want to do it. And I think that's what's so exciting to me was because I I remember saying I want to I want a piece of the pie now. I'm ready. Yeah. What like what was it that really inspired you to take that final?

[00:41:41.615] - Jen Hall

Like, no, I'm doing this.

[00:41:45.195] - David Carpenter

Do you know what it was? A couple of things. First of all, I started to feel like the chains of that limited belief that I'd had for years sort of fall away as I saw first hand what could be done, you know, from my job in other track and things like that being exposed, I think, to people like yourself, Andy, who would do in these types of things. And then it's hard to describe it. I just find myself doing it.

[00:42:07.875] - David Carpenter

And I had had the idea and had I've had it like off and on for years. And I think a lot people might relate to that is like you don't it just it's not like a lightning bolt hit. Your light bulb goes off. It's an idea that's percolating for years that might do something with one day. And this was my I might do something with one day and then I don't know. I think it was the lock dings. It was after the first Lookdown that we had it and a lot of time to myself sit at home doing nothing.

[00:42:31.455] - David Carpenter

I'm just getting by. And then we'd have like Zoome meetings and put things in place and then we do them and they'd work. And I be thinking this actually works. This isn't like some black magic or something. This is actually something I think I might I might do. Yeah. And then I thought and then literally I was like, well, I want to do it. I want to do well. I want to try. Yeah.

[00:42:50.685] - David Carpenter

Well first of all, what I want to try because I believe because I believed in a lot of the things that we were doing, you know, I mean and I was so overwhelmed by the the success that those ideas and those practices can have. And I think seeing the impact that it had on people and I think partially, you know, when we had to disappoint a lot of customers, when they weren't able to travel, but, yeah, they were the response was like it was it was almost like they were trying to console us.

[00:43:16.605] - David Carpenter

I know they will always say sorry. I'm like, we're sorry. We can't exactly right now. And they were like, you know, we hope you OK. You know, if you if ever need anything, I'll be there. Wow. Yeah, we did this. The support was incredible. Yeah. We did this, you know, from nothing. And there's another community that I care deeply about, which is the like the mountain bike and the cycling community.

[00:43:36.225] - David Carpenter

And I was like, well, I won that forthem then.

[00:43:38.855] - David Carpenter

Yeah, I want to do that. I want to do something awesome and epic. Yeah. And then luckily, you know, you know, there were lots of different timelines. You can put things together. But, you know, I had an inside on the suppliers. But even I wouldn't even one if I was listening to this, I would be thinking, why don't I don't know any supplies? Well, actually, if you go back in time, the way we found it was we went out to Nepal and found them.

[00:44:00.425] - Jen Hall

Yeah, you literally did you literally pack your bags and went right where off and you came back with a supplier.

[00:44:05.315] - David Carpenter

Exactly. I mean, if you think the people you need to do business with are over there, why aren't you over there talking to them? Yeah, it's a quick Google search. It's a plane ticket. And you go out there and you schedules and meetings and you do what you can do. And that's so essential.

[00:44:18.185] - Jen Hall

Guys like if you ever doing anything similar to this, where you have suppliers are away and abroad, it is key to actually go out there and physically see them. I mean, Dave and Andy went out there and saw a myriad of the differences between each supplier and actually having seeing firsthand what supplying especially because, you know, in this instance, they are over track. We are at a track here. We are like we've had to kind of instill our branding throughout these suppliers.

[00:44:48.305] - Jen Hall

They've had to accept that branding and live and breathe our values along with us. And so when you have that close connection with the supplier is just I cannot stress how important it is to get the right people. And you got to do that in person. You've got a rigorous looking and build and relationship building to make sure you get the right, the right. He totally could.

[00:45:07.145] - David Carpenter

Well, because and also you've got to be you've got to go there with an open mind, because we went out there with a few sort of we had quite a lot of suppliers on our list, but we had pretty much too that we were thinking between between and one of them was standing out for us. And then when we went over there and when we met the two suppliers, we ended up going with the other one, you know, and we would not have been able to have made that decision, which was absolutely the right decision unless we had gone over


[00:45:33.455] - David Carpenter

Yeah. And you shake hands and you sit down and you talk to each other honestly about what you want, what you can do. And, you know, there's a time for, like handshaking and drinking and having a good time. And then there's a time where you going to ask each other tough questions. Yeah. And, you know, you can't be afraid to do that by doing that. We kind of realized, you know, what we saw back in the wrong horse here.

[00:45:55.895] - David Carpenter

We're going to go with the other guys. Yeah, and it's absolutely key because, you know, there's a few key moments, I think, where you can see that, like, the business is really sort of exploded. One of them was land in that supplier and incorporate them into our track. And they wholeheartedly embraced our brand. And the right supplier will see the value in that. Absolutely. No. If you go over to someone and you say, well, I've got this amazing idea, this amazing product, I've got this to back it up, this is what it's going to happen.

[00:46:22.175] - David Carpenter

They'll build it. What's good for them is good for you. Absolutely.

[00:46:25.325] - Jen Hall

And I think is why they were they were the more expensive supplier as well. Yeah. By a long run. But they were the right ones for us because again, going back to this mantra of what would the best in the world look like? We don't want us. We don't want to supply it. We just do it for now. We want to supply that could grow. We we could grow into it reality. We knew who they'd worked with before.

[00:46:47.255] - Jen Hall

And, you know, it's so important to get to to find excellence so that you can raise your standards at the same time. You know, I see so many people. I'll just do this just for now. I'll just do this for now. And it's like, you know think about how you're going to grow. And I think these are the things you picked up on here today is like one is belief, knowing that you can do it and really pushing for that.

[00:47:09.785] - Jen Hall

And I see that even with people making success, people who are plateauing, people who aren't growing as fast as they want. To check in on your belief, are you actually seeing that it's possible for you to go to move further than you are right now, but also looking at that growth element of are you leaving space and room to grow?

[00:47:28.835] - Jen Hall

Are you you've got the right people around you to to do that. And I think that's you know, it's been a really interesting conversation. Dave, is there anything else that you kind of in terms of someone starting from scratch, having already been a massive part of our journey, but having never run your own business before, any kind of advice that you want to impart to listeners today?

[00:47:50.105] - David Carpenter

The first thing I would say is to people that never, never give up when it seems hard or difficult. I know that sounds cliched and weird. And that's just the first thing I want to say is because there have been many times where, you know, it's it becomes easier to think, Arjuna, you know, I saw it.

[00:48:02.045] - David Carpenter

I'm like, yeah, you know, like it probably wouldn't have worked anyway. And is actually that for so that intrusive thought can almost feel like a relief because you're unburdening yourself of all of that work, all of that potential heartbreak and failure that you're worried about. The other bit of advice that I would give to everyone is, you know, just if if you're not already an expert in what you're trying to achieve, then sort of go find one and learn from them, you know, whether that be like a coach like yourself, because I can't stress how much I've learned just from sitting with you, you know, just for a few hours and.

[00:48:35.545] - David Carpenter

I think that anyone that sort of experiences that first hand and sees what they're able to build with that type of help and guidance, you know, you don't have to do it alone, I suppose, is what I'm saying. Yeah, you do. I really don't.

[00:48:46.075] - David Carpenter

I think that you're making a rod for your own back and pride really sort of cost me that help, you know, because there was a brief period of time where I said, you know, I think I'm going to try on my own. I think I can do it. I want to try and see if I can do it. Well, actually, there's no there's no I mean, very, very few people are able to actually do that.

[00:49:04.525] - Jen Hall


[00:49:04.645] - Jen Hall

I haven't done it on my own. I don't think anyone successful has. And that's I think I've yet to find someone who said, no, I did this all by myself. Exactly.

[00:49:11.185] - David Carpenter

I mean, and I think that having the right help and support and people and people to learn from it has really made the key difference because it's been able to take an idea and a passion and turn it into something tangible and real. Yeah, I wouldn't have been able to have like a website, you know, and all of these, like, you know, these sales funnels and all of this stuff, marketing ideas that ready to sort of fire off into that.

[00:49:35.005] - David Carpenter

I wouldn't have had that. No, I would have had a Facebook page and a website.

[00:49:38.755] - Jen Hall


[00:49:39.565] - Jen Hall

And I hope and pray that he gets that he brings in the money that would have been it, because ultimately, you know.

[00:49:47.745] - David Carpenter

I didn't go to business school, now I'm not an economic historian, I make up words that I think those are the two things that I think of really help myself is, you know, one is not given up when it seems like it's probably the easiest thing to do.

[00:50:03.795] - David Carpenter

And secondly, it's just seeking help and advice. Yeah, yeah. Because there's a whole industry built around helping people become successful. And I think as soon as it becomes. Like, well, for me, you know, I know ruggedized wouldn't have been a success without it, and I think there'll be so many more successful businesses once people start realizing that there's healthier to be had.

[00:50:23.995] - David Carpenter

Yeah, and the return on investment is. Well, I just want to make. Well, yeah.

[00:50:28.225] - David Carpenter

Yeah, exactly as high as you want to make it, as you know, I mean the having the help and advice and stuff like that and you know, putting your money in the right place, you know. So and one other thing as well, and I'm waffling a little bit now, but I've always believed that, like, you know, you should build the road before the traffic, you know. Yeah. And I think that might cost some time.

[00:50:48.115] - David Carpenter

It might cost some money, but you shouldn't shortchange your future by not making that investment.

[00:50:54.355] - David Carpenter

Yeah, because I think that's ultimately what you are doing. You're selling yourself and that amazing idea. So sure. Why not invest in, you know, your time and your energy and your money at the beginning and into sort of learning all of these things that I've had to learn? And I guarantee it. It's such a I mean, to me, just as a fact, just as a particle guy, you know, it's like you can't lose.

[00:51:17.455] - David Carpenter

Yeah. Because if you believe in your idea, if you know that there's a market for it and you've done all of that and you know that, I just need a way in. Well, the way in is like getting access to this giant pool of customers. Is enough there to make everyone rich. Yes. You know, but they don't know about you. How do they know about you? Do you know, I don't have a glossary of every customer of every business in the world.

[00:51:38.755] - Jen Hall

So you've got to kind of force your way in and you've got to make them see you. Yeah, and that's not easy. It's a bit of that that, you know, it takes time, money and effort. And I think, like, you've raised a good point there. And earlier on, you said about, you know, we're the first to do it. And if you can be the first and doing something, then you're going to you know, you're going to make waves, same as at the time I see people sort of like watching the big fish do what they do and then they follow behind.

[00:52:02.825] - Jen Hall

Yeah, you're always going to be in the shadow. You've got to step in front if you want to lead and be that market leader. Otherwise, it's just not it's you can't move forward in that way effectively because you're always going to be in the shadow of the other market leader. So you've got to do something different. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and that's the other thing I think I like to think of. I sometimes like to think of abstract as like the bad news bears for the trucking industry because we do things differently.

[00:52:27.025] - David Carpenter

Yeah. You know, there's a certain way of doing things and a certain accepted protocol that we think, well, hang on a minute. Why why is it happening that way when that's not the best way for the customer? So we come in, we sit down, we put our boots on the table and we tell our that's how we're going to do it. Yeah. You know, and I think so if you are struggling to, like, find what what what is my unique thing?

[00:52:45.625] - David Carpenter

What is my sort of first thing will actually have a look at the industry you're in and, you know, do a little bit of research and see. Well, actually, it's been the same way for a long time. There's always a way to improve something or do things differently. Yeah. And I think, you know, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, but you can find a new way of using it that all sort of create attention and create a bit of momentum in this.

[00:53:05.245] - Jen Hall

And it can be really scary to do because it is outside your comfort zone. You are the first and you always have that. What happens if it backfires? Inevitably it doesn't. If you've got the right intentions of the reason behind why you're doing it, you don't say you're going to be, you know, get things right first time, all of the time. But, you know, if you want if you want to lead, you've got you've got to be fair, she Connollys you've got to do things a bit differently.

[00:53:25.915] - Jen Hall

And actually, just on my final points in this podcast, episodes going be mammoth, but it's so useful for people. So I don't want to cut it too short. But something before the podcast we discussed something, a point that you made to me was around perfectionism and trying to get things right. Can you and we talked about this a lot actually over the last couple of podcast episodes. But what's your take on that and what are your lessons?

[00:53:47.495] - David Carpenter

I think at least at the very beginning, you need to sort of you need to you need to do away with perfectionism. Good is good enough. You know, if you spend all your time trying to make every little bit of content, every blog post perfect, you will never finish one and it will never be perfect, you know. But what I think you need to try and do is find a way like this is the message that I want to say you need to get it out there and you need people to consume it.

[00:54:11.035] - David Carpenter

And you can always go back and refine things. You can always change things. Your business is not going to be created in one one moment and stay like that forever. You know, don't be afraid to build things, to try things and to sort of just get things done is more important than striving for perfection. Yeah, because I think I've sat there, you know, trying to write a blog for three hours that I could have done in thirty minutes had I not been.

[00:54:34.585] - David Carpenter

Yeah. Too picky about it and trying to be to. No, but this is the know. No, no, no. The message is already there. You've written it for. Yeah. You know, so I think get like struggling for perfection at least at the beginning, is something that I think will only ever hold you back. Yeah. Because perfection is something you should strive towards, not sort of trying to achieve it first off. Exactly.

[00:54:53.335] - Jen Hall

It's about tweaking, testing, seeing what's working and getting it out there. You know, I work with clients all the time. You know, sometimes, you know, we've got lucky and things have worked out, you know, sort of work out a lot quicker, that's for sure, when you've got a business coach on side. But, you know, it doesn't always pan out to be right the first time either. It takes time.

[00:55:11.275] - Jen Hall

It takes tweaking and and and making these changes. To make it the best it can be, but you were never going to get anywhere, so many people say no man's land, so just chasing the tail, not doing things, not taking action because they're so worried it won't work or they're so worried that it's not right. You've got to get things out there and just give it a go is you'll never find out unless you unless you take take that action.

[00:55:33.345] - David Carpenter


[00:55:33.775] - David Carpenter

And I often think, you know, strike when the iron's hot as well. Do you have that idea? That's the highest it's ever going to be. The longer you wait to get things right and get things perfect, the cooler the idea, the longer the time between the conception of the idea and the launching of the business, the more time for you to get distracted and things like that. Yeah, just getting things done was so. And you know what's so rewarding?

[00:55:52.495] - David Carpenter

Because once it's done, you kind of think you can relax, you stop thinking about it, you can move on to

something else. And that's how the business grows. It's in increments like the momentum get in, small things done and then moving on to the next and getting it done and getting it done. And then, you know, at the end when you're old and gray and rich, you can look back and say, you know what?

[00:56:09.095] - David Carpenter

That was pretty perfect.

[00:56:10.015] - Jen Hall

Yeah, I like I like that. I just want to end this podcast conversation, you know, because we've actually we've positioned and is this absolute hero and he is an absolute hero. I love him to bits. But what I also want to say around the edge of perfectionism is sometimes we can compare ourselves to people and we can lurk and we can think, oh, you know, it's hilarious because I'm the lesser spotted yeti. I'm very much behind the scenes when Andy's out there, like networking or whatever, you know, bless his heart.

[00:56:40.315] - Jen Hall

He gets all the all he gets all the credit and all the praise. You know, you've done so well on your own. And, you know, I'm pretty sure he's. Oh, no, I didn't. I didn't. He's like, thank you so much.

[00:56:49.465] - Jen Hall

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I am a hero. I am a living hero. And but, you know, we can easily look around and make those judgments and those preconceptions when we look at certain people around is like the perfect hero character. So jovial, positive, heroic guy. He's just genuine. He is genuinely very inspiring as well. So you can easily look at him. And, you know, even you said earlier, like, I don't think he's dead.

[00:57:14.365] - Jen Hall

And I would be absolutely lying to say that, you know, as as his, you know, partner, you know, as his fiance as well as a business partner, I can say. Absolutely. Has had times when he's dead and, you know, and he hasn't done it on his own. I haven't done it all on my own. Dave won't do on his own, you know, is around who you get, who you get on side.

[00:57:32.425] - Jen Hall

So don't get into that comparison I just made, you know, of. Oh, there's there's one single human hero out there. Like you said, I'm not Elon Musk. I'm pretty sure Elon Musk isn't doing on his own either. You know, these people are front runners for what they're doing, but they also have teams. They also have experts and people that help them. And so anyone that you're looking at and just think, oh, gosh, I wish I could be like them in that scenario, it's just not true.

[00:57:58.885] - Jen Hall

We're all human. You know, we've not bulletproof. We have days where we do fall down and things don't quite work out. But it's how quickly you pick yourself up. It's who you've got around you to support you and that support network that you've got. And realizing that actually, you know, what you've got inside of you is utterly perfect in this moment. And when you marry that with other people's expertise and their passions, it's it can only help your business grow.

[00:58:24.475] - Jen Hall

So don't get stuck in that comparison I just made. And thinking that, like you said at the beginning, Dave around, I'm not Elon, so therefore it's not going to work out for me. You've got to push past that because you do have you it's just about tapping, tapping into that and getting rid of that limiting belief in that area. So thank you so much for joining me today. Really, really enjoyed it. And we will see you guys in the next episode.

[00:58:45.655] - Jen Hall

Don't forget, if you want to pick a call with me to chat about joining Elevate in its current guise, then do make sure that you click the link in the show notes that's in there for you to pick a call immediately with me. Make sure you do it quickly before the New Year begins. Otherwise, chances may be lost.

[00:59:02.665] - Jen Hall

Anyway, on that bombshell you guys week.


About the author 

Jennifer Hall

Jen Hall is Business Clarity Coach for Coaches, Consultants & Experts who want to become Unrivalled Go-To Experts.

Jen not only gets you clear on your micro-niche, message and what makes you unique and desirable, but she helps you to define what makes you an irrefutable offer to the market so you can position yourself as a high-end 'must have' option for your prospects.

She is a Multi-Award Winning Speaker and Best Selling Author of Expert Unrivalled.

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