How to Build Your Audience with Incredible Content with Janet Murray

Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format

[00:00:00.060] - Jen Hall
In this exciting episode, we are talking to the amazing Janet Murray, the queen of content creation and audience building. Hello and welcome to the expert unrivalled podcast. This is Jen Hall, your business positioning coach and market leadership expert on this exciting special guest episode. We are speaking to the incredible Janet Murray, who is the host of the chart topping Janet Murray show, who I was really privileged to be a guest on not so long ago. And she's also a global keynote speaker and she is just the queen of content.

[00:00:45.330] - Jen Hall
I absolutely adore her and also what she puts out into the world. I first met Janet at Magic Metalized in London, where she was hosting a talk on how to create incredible content to build your audience. And today we're really privileged to actually have her in person on the podcast, giving us all the gold, dishing out all the gold nuggets on how to build an audience and how to produce amazing content that not only positions you as a market leader, but also helps to create content that will convert prospects into buyers and that will appeal to those ideal prospects before launching into the interview.

[00:01:29.970] - Jen Hall
I just want to remind you guys that if you're enjoying the podcast, please do leave a review. It massively helps the rankings and helps his podcast to get out to more listeners who can learn from the podcast. And it also means that you get a shout out at the beginning of an episode, which would just be amazing. They do make sure that you leave me a review and if you want a shout out to just pop me an email to Jen@jen-hall.com to let me know who you are and what you do as a business.

[00:01:59.100] - Jen Hall
And I also want to remind you guys that I have a brand new free before year, which is the seven figure market leader road map, which shows you what you need to put in place right now to build a market leading business that can create seven figures and beyond. So do make sure that you go and check out the show notes, click the link and download that access that instantly. I'm super excited about it. The content super juicy. So do make sure you go and grab that.

[00:02:27.810] - Jen Hall
So without further ado, let the interview roll.

[00:02:31.770] - Jen Hall
And here we have the amazing Janet Murray. Janet, thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks so much for having me. Honestly, I'm really excited to get digging into today's conversation because I think there's so many juicy questions that both my clients and their listeners here have been gagging to find our answers to. And one of those in particular that I really want to ask, because I find that so much of the time that people start businesses and they run them and they forget about audience building.

[00:03:01.860] - Jen Hall
And I know this is something that you really focus on helping other entrepreneurs with. And I want I do wonder why it kind of gets missed that people focus so much on creating products, looking at their pricing, and then they run out there and they just think, well, actually, who am I selling to?

[00:03:19.080] - Jen Hall
And, you know, why do you think this gets missed and how important is it to the successful running of the business?

[00:03:25.890] - Janet Murray
Well, first of all, no one's ever asked me. That was a really good question. Why do I think people miss it? I think we probably when we start businesses this is my guess, I don't know. The exact answer is we get so excited and we get swept up. So we've got this thing that we think like people would really benefit from, you know, this product that we're really excited about in this service. And I think part of the problem is that people and this has certainly been my experience with my own clients, is that they get excited about a product or service that they want to sell without really checking if there is an audience or a market for that particular product or service.

[00:04:01.410] - Janet Murray
And there's just so much to do, you know, to bring something to market. And you're really excited about it and you want to do it, that, yeah, you just kind of get swept along. And before you know it, you're like, oh, actually, is there anyone that actually wants to buy this thing? And if so, where? Where all these people. So that would be my guess. I don't know whether you've got any experience to draw from your own client, but I think your own clients, I should say.

[00:04:25.500] - Janet Murray
But I think it's generally been quite excited about the product or service and kind of just missing out those crucial steps, like who am I going to sell this thing to?

[00:04:33.540] - Jen Hall
Absolutely. And I think, you know, in my experience of working with other clients, as I've seen where people have done that, they generally come to me after that kind of initial thing has happened. But then on the other side of the coin is that then, you know, when we actually look at it, because that whole section has been missed, I don't know about you. Do you find that, you know, some of my clients actually had to change direction or actually change the product because that initial kind of research in the first place?

[00:05:00.090] - Janet Murray
Yeah, absolutely. And that is often the key problem for both product and service based businesses is that they're so excited about their product and how they think it will help people they forget to actually do the research. And is this something that people actually want? Often it's the thing that they want. It's the thing that that they want to sell and they would really like. So my main offering is my ability on an audience program. And we start off with, like, nailing a niche that's the first class, because actually, if you don't know who you are and what it is that you do and I also kind of what makes you different to to other products or services out there, what you you know, it's really difficult to build an audience because you don't know what kind of audience you want to build.

[00:05:43.810] - Janet Murray
And then the content becomes so difficult because you're like, well, I don't know, like I've got this thing. I don't really know who I want to buy it. And I'm not even sure if they want to buy it. So then the whole content thing, like what you post on your Facebook page, like you know what you do on Instagram, it becomes impossible then because you've missed out a couple of those really crucial first steps

[00:06:07.000] - Jen Hall
Absolutely niching is something, you know, obviously, that I'm well versed.

[00:06:09.850] - Jen Hall
You you were very lovely and sending a particular client my way. He's absolutely lovely to work on that niche because I know from your perspective how important that is to audience building. And but when it comes to looking at that niche and I know I bang on about it a lot on this, it would be really lovely to hear it from yet another expert. But how important is it and how far do you feel that you need to reach down in order to successfully build an audience that will buy from you?

[00:06:39.550] - Janet Murray
Oh, it's just the most important thing in the world. And the problem is, is that everybody is terrified of it because this is kind of universal terror, that if I say that I'm going to specialize in a very specific area or working with a very specific type of person, then I'm going to lose out. But actually, the opposite is is true. And what I think about in some of my clients or some of the businesses that I know that are the most successful, it's because they've cornered a very, very specific market or they've I mean, there's lots of different ways that you can niche, you can niche by area.

[00:07:12.100] - Janet Murray
You can buy interest you can buy. And the type of client you work with, you can really, really put it down.

[00:07:19.450] - Janet Murray
But the people who are brave enough to kind of put their flag in the sand and say, this is my Pat Lecky audience, building is a really good example of that, because audience building is just about marketing. It's like content marketing. And what are the challenges I have with my niche is that it's so they show new that actually, you know, like unless you're in my circle of my ideal clients or customers, you know, you might not necessarily know what it is, but that doesn't that's not necessarily a bad thing, because if the people that you want to get in front of, if they understand, like what you know, what audience building is, if they understand whatever your particular thing is, that's the crucial thing.

[00:07:58.870] - Janet Murray
And what it allows you to do is really drill down. So how I thought my age is probably quite a good example, but I was sort of teaching general marketing and content and I was a little competition in that area. You know, there's nothing that would distinguish me from any other person, really. And then when I started to look at it, well, this phrase that people kept saying, like, the thing is I need to build my audience.

[00:08:20.380] - Janet Murray
The thing is I need to build my audience. So my niche, like, found me in a way rather than, you know, I mean, I think there's a few things about niching as well as that. Often I think people need a niche because they have an idea of something that they think that they should be teaching and actually nobody wants it or not enough people want it.

[00:08:36.250] - Janet Murray
But actually just being tuned in to what what do people keep saying? What do they keep asking about? Was that one thing that they keep talking about? And that's where I came to audience growth. I realized that there were all these people out there who were wanting to get online and in particular, they were wanting to sell online courses. They wanted to sell memberships, they wanted to generate recurring income. But that that relies on scale. And, you know, the the online conversion rate is like one to two percent.

[00:09:05.920] - Janet Murray
So if you don't have an audience, if you don't have people following you who are like your fans, are you interested in what you do? It can be really difficult to to sell anything. So I think I just can't stress how important it is and how important it is to be brave and claim that area. And sometimes it can feel so. NASCH It feels like painful and you kind of think, oh, but what you really want to be is you need to be that person or that brand.

[00:09:31.330] - Janet Murray
People go, oh, she's the person that you go to if you need help with or that that's the company that you go to if you need. And I think too often, you know, when I'm working with my clients in the village online audience programme and when we start at that niching point, they'll say, well, I'm a brand photographer. Like I photograph female entrepreneurs. I'm like, well, there's loads of people that do that, like, why would I hire you?

[00:09:53.650] - Janet Murray
Why would I hire you as opposed to somebody else like and that means that, you know, if you can't get more niche than I photograph female entrepreneurs, you're content then becomes very you know, it becomes very difficult because it's like, well, there's only so many things you can write about. But if you can really kind of like, you know, dig deep and find that. And I think John Le Domus calls it like. Inch wide, mile deep, and I think that is that is the way to go.

[00:10:19.350] - Janet Murray
And what I love about it is that when you're brave enough to do that, everything becomes easier. Your content, you know, everything I create is about audience voting, you know everything. And there's just so many different facets that you can you can go to. So it really is like it's the most important thing I think you can do in your business.

[00:10:37.680] - Jen Hall
Oh, my gosh. That's just so much so that at one point I was literally had my hand going, yes, John, it was everything he said absolutely resonated with me. And it's so true. And there's so many things actually there that I just want to pick up on that you just talked about. I mean, first off, can you give us a couple of examples of some of your most your client's most successful measures just to kind of give people a flavor of what's worked really well in terms of audience building?

[00:11:04.320] - Janet Murray
Well, I come to clients in a second, but there's one there's one example of a kind of like a a colleague that that comes to mind. Say it's a lady called Joe Sollee. And she does. She was a general business coach. She was actually a guest on my podcast. And she was finding that, you know, it's pretty crowded in the in the business coaching space. And when she reached down to specialize in being a business coach and combining that with her love, which is numerology, and if you don't know what numerology is, it's like, you know, the study of numbers and how it impacts on your life and how your birthdate and other key numbers in your life impact now what I love about it.

[00:11:39.300] - Janet Murray
So she's created this thing called physiology, which is business coaching with neurology.

[00:11:43.450] - Janet Murray
What I love about it is that you have to be quite we will certainly open to we way to to work with you. And that's fine. You know, some people think it's a load of rubbish, you know, and that's absolutely fine. But since Joe came up with physiology, she has been fully booked because people know what she's about. And all you need to talk to Joe.

[00:12:04.560] - Janet Murray
She does this thing with business coaching and numerology so that that's an example of a of a of a kind of a colleague, one of my clients actually recently. I'm just so excited about what's happening with her business because she is a management accountant and a management accountant. You know, it's not the most exciting thing, but quite when I say it's not exciting if your management council is totally exciting. But what I mean is, is that when you show up online and you say, I want management accountant, it's not something that generally people go, wow, they're full of questions.

[00:12:36.450] - Janet Murray
But this how you are probably offended a whole industry sorry, management classes.

[00:12:43.140] - Jen Hall
But I don't agree. I'm pretty sure.

[00:12:46.240] - Janet Murray
So Sally came to me and Sally is was a management accountant and worked in corporate and, you know, quite a typical story, had kids wanted to be more flexible, work from home. So started her own business. And she was selling courses about she was talking about it as like, no, your business numbers and you just kind of know, you know, know what's going on. Your business understand about cash flow reports and predictions of blah, blah, blah.

[00:13:13.300] - Janet Murray
But she was doing OK, but people weren't really resonating with her message because are quite a few people out there doing kind of, you know, know your business numbers or whatever. And I think the thing is well, about your name, she doesn't really like people have to really want it and they have to really want the result. So with Joe in the numerology, it's kind of fun and it's exciting. People love discovering stuff about themselves. And, you know, even if they're not, we will.

[00:13:36.720] - Janet Murray
But, you know, if somebody said to me, like, do you want to buy a course on knowing your business numbers? Uh, well, I kind of know I need to do that. But it doesn't really get to the heart of the pain that I go through every day. So I suggested to Sally that she, as opposed to thing people ask you about most like when people come to you and they want help with their you know, they don't say, I want a management accountant do.

[00:13:58.610] - Janet Murray
She's like, no more pricing. That's the thing they ask about the most pricing, like, how do I price my products and services? How do I put my prices up? How do I how do I look at what's what am I best selling products and see where I could, you know, increase the prices, make more profit or whatever it might be. And we came up with that as a niche like pricing and profit. So pricing for more entry level people and, you know, somebody who's further on in their in their journey, might be more interested in profit because, you know, they've got they've now the pricing thing.

[00:14:29.250] - Janet Murray
So we came up with pricing and profit as her area. So suddenly she's not a management accountant anymore. She's an expert in pricing. And suddenly she's you know, people are, you know, falling over themselves to book power. I was with her and stuff because they get what it is that she does and how she can help. And it's really, really it's really practical. And they're like, okay, I've got an online course coming up, you know, can I book a call with you to talk about pricing?

[00:14:50.940] - Janet Murray
And I've got I don't know, I want to put my rates up next year, like, can I sit down with you and, you know, talk about how we do that and how I have that conversation and what impact that could have my business. And, you know, if I was to put my prices up, does that mean I could drop this client or whatever? And suddenly it all makes sense that she's, like, reinventing herself into the pricing queen and but she's got pricing and profit.

[00:15:14.280] - Janet Murray
It because I thought it was important for her to have if she wanted to have clients who were a little bit further on in the journey she's writing about.

[00:15:22.860] - Janet Murray
Yes.

[00:15:23.280] - Janet Murray
And up so but that for me just kind of says it all about it's the same thing. She's still like, you know, she's still tapping away on a spreadsheets and, you know, she's still doing cash flow forecasts and she's still teaching business owners and, you know, to kind of love the numbers in their business and to kind of understand them and and see the power of them. But that first message didn't resonate, you know. No your numbers

[00:15:45.150] - Janet Murray
It's like, OK, the thing I often say is maybe no one wakes up in the morning and says, I really need to know my numbers. But they do wake up in the morning. They're blowing out like I've got to get back to that person because they've asked me to price up that thing and I don't know where to go with it. So it's about what are those real problems? And also getting an across in language that people understand that's relatable.

[00:16:08.310] - Jen Hall
Yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:09.220] - Jen Hall
I just really want to kind of pick up on a penny drop moment that a lot of listeners might actually just be having right now, which is around the fact that people might need something. It doesn't necessarily mean they want it. And I think that's the perfect example of, you know, yes, everyone should look at the numbers. Everyone does need to know the numbers. If they're not feeling the pain or if they're not really understanding the why of it, they're never going to move.

[00:16:32.340] - Jen Hall
And so it's really important, like you say, change that language and make it really meaningful to those people that you're serving. I think that's just the perfect, perfect example.

[00:16:42.060] - Jen Hall
And just for everyone, one of our regular listeners who were I've talked about things like these productize USP and which I call a unique magic bullet, going back to Joe SODI with that physiology. By the way, guys, that's a perfect gentleman is a perfect example of, you know, something that is productize that is unique that she can deliver to her clients that I've never heard of that before at all. So that's a really, really good example of that.

[00:17:11.550] - Jen Hall
And Janet as well, you talked about listening as well. I think that's really key. And that's again, going back to my original question. I think that really answers. It's the people just don't listen to what people are wanting, what they're saying, and that's where things get missed, why we end up having to adapt and change. But also, if you're in that boat, it doesn't matter. There is always opportunity for you to adapt and change and move and move things along.

[00:17:35.760] - Jen Hall
Now, going to change the direction of the conversation just slightly here, because I also know we've also talked a lot about audience building. We may may return to it. I also know you are you know, forgive me for giving the royal title of the Queen a content creation, but you really are I mean, all of your content creation. And I think one of the biggest fears that people have around content creation, especially in conjunction with niching, is that am I going to run out of content ideas?

[00:18:04.980] - Jen Hall
So I want to also press you to also talk very briefly during your answer to this around an event that you actually have coming up as well. Please do feel free to let people know about that, because I think that's going to be really important to helping people with this question as well. So I'll let you take the floor with that one.

[00:18:21.870] - Janet Murray
Yeah. So first of all, never you know, if you know your audience well and you know your ideal customers and clients well, you should never really run out of ideas. So, I mean, just to take that pricing one as an example, so you might look at pricing and say, well, you know, what can I possibly do? So, you know, first of all, it's like, how do I set my prices?

[00:18:44.400] - Janet Murray
And then it's like, how do I put out my prices? What do I do if somebody says no to my prices? And should I be matching prices with others in my industry? How do I know which you know, then you come away from pricing. It's like, well, how do I know? You know what am I best performing products or services in my business? And you can kind of go out from there. But just I mean, for me, all of the content that I create to promote my products and services, it all just comes from the questions that people ask me and you can get so so, you know, you can take something like and like a topic like, you know, how do I price my products and services?

[00:19:24.900] - Janet Murray
Well, then you've got product based, product based businesses. You've got service based businesses. How do you price an event? How do you price a product? How does that differ to how do you price an information product? How do you price in a recession? so you can literally kind of like just put that phrase, how do you price or pricing or pricing problems or you know, what happens if my my competitor undercuts me? Like, you could just go on literally forever and ever and ever.

[00:19:56.490] - Janet Murray
And if you get stuck, you just go to Google and just put your word in and just see what the autofill brings up. I mean, there's loads of keyword tools and things like that you can use, but I really firmly believe you could do at least a year's content just by just making lists of the things that people ask. All the time, so does that kind of help on that front

[00:20:17.630] - Jen Hall
absolutely. What's your opinion on repeating contents?

[00:20:21.560] - Janet Murray
Yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely no problem in doing that. A lot of people create new content needlessly. And actually, one thing that Google loves is for you to update content. So it may well be that you've done a, you know, really a blog post on setting your prices a few years back. And you've now got some new insights. You know, maybe you could add a video to it, maybe you could add some some of the things that you've learned.

[00:20:43.880] - Janet Murray
So there's no reason why you can't update content and why you can't revisit topics again and again or just look at them from from slightly, slightly different angles. So, you know, how to price in a recession has replaced when you're coming out of a recession, how to price in a very competitive market, how to price when you're the market leader. You know, there's just it feels like to me that this is no end of it. I know it, you know, but there's no problem at all with repeating things as long as, you know, your audience needs and wants that

[00:21:16.190] - Jen Hall
absolutely not in complete agreement.

[00:21:18.320] - Jen Hall
You know, I think evergreen content is really important. And also, you know, you're hopefully bringing in new people in your audience all the time. I think people forget a lot of the time that actually, you know, you're not always speaking to the same person. And if you are, then there's a problem because they're not buying from you. So you want to you want to repeat yourself because you're going to have new, fresh ideas with fresh blood, like some sort of vampire that you people in your audience and then speaking do is they need to hear the messages again, right?

[00:21:46.910] - Janet Murray
Yeah. And I also think that your perspectives change. So and your experiences say, like, I might have recorded a podcast like a year ago on content strategy and what I've learned and what I've seen and you know, what I've learnt from working with my clients over the year. I've probably got new content to bring to that. I've got new tips. I've got new ideas, I've got a new strategy is I've got new examples.

[00:22:10.280] - Janet Murray
So that kind of core content, the things that people ask about all the time, there's no reason why you can't just go back and revisit and update it.

[00:22:17.160] - Jen Hall
Absolutely. No, 100 percent agreed. And I know that you've got an event coming up, haven't you? I know, obviously, this is very timely. So those of you who might be listening, perhaps, I don't know, twenty, twenty one or whatever, this is going to be valid. But right now, for those of you on the twenty first of October, twenty twenty, Janet has an incredible event that I do want to mention because I think it's going to be really valuable to many of the listeners.

[00:22:37.550] - Jen Hall
Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Yeah.

[00:22:39.440] - Janet Murray
So first off, it still is absolutely valid and you will be able to benefit from it even if you can't go live. So I'll tell you about that. So so, yeah, it's an annual content planning event. So this year it's twenty, twenty one. So last year it was twenty, twenty thirty. You know, you guessed it, 2022 sorted for next year. So it's, it's a concert planning event and it's actually I've been running it for five years, but it's kind of evolved over that time.

[00:23:05.540] - Janet Murray
But the structure is the first day is about inspiration. So I bring like some of the world's leading content creators and they come and get you inspired and talk about, you know, what kind of content you should be creating and, you know, ideas and strategy. And then on the second day, we really kind of knuckle down. And I basically do your content plan with you at the event.

[00:23:25.850] - Janet Murray
Usually it's in person and this year due to covid etc, it's online, but it's still exactly the same outcome I'm walking through. And it's a process that I've created to help people create a content strategy and stick to it. And it's like really well tested. But I've literally had hundreds and hundreds of people who have taught it to and now use it in their business. But the key thing is the accountability. So I would literally stand over a virtually while you create your content with a particular process.

[00:23:56.690] - Janet Murray
I take people through and you also get a copy of my I have a social media diary and planner. So it's a life or death diary. It's got, uh, awareness days and key dates and it's got templates you can use for your annual plan, quarterly, daily, weekly. So it's a very practical event whereby you'll be able to actually get something really concrete done. And I think the key thing for me is that your content plan is so tied to your business plan, because my content strategy is basically all about creating content that's tied to what you sell so that you're already always creating content that is enabling you to talk about, you know, people often say, well, how do I like, you know, put content out?

[00:24:38.300] - Janet Murray
That helps me. So what products and services without going by myself, by myself, by myself all the time. That's how you do it. You sit and you look across your year and you say, okay, what am I going to be selling? When am I going to start selling it? Okay. It would really make sense for me to do a blog on that, then a podcast on that. And, you know, I'll teach you the whole process.

[00:24:52.910] - Janet Murray
But yeah, if you if you it's on November the third and fourth. Twenty, twenty. But and if you can't attend live, it's no problem at all. If you're listening to this like in March 2021 and you think it sounds good because you get all the recordings so you can go back in your own time and you get a membership to my house by twenty one sorted club where you get the support with your content for the whole year. So we have.

[00:25:14.230] - Janet Murray
Coaching calls, so you can kind of, you know, reset every quarter. Come back with a great let's let's let's review. Let's get your next quarter.

[00:25:22.780] - Janet Murray
Make sure that's when I found you. Yeah. And I send an email every Monday with ideas as well as the diary has awareness days and key dates. And sometimes people are like, I don't really know, how do I do this national hat? I believe me, I can make contact of anything.

[00:25:36.790] - Janet Murray
And so I'll actually give you ideas every Monday and for the following week so you can literally pick them up and actually post them on your platforms pretty much just with a bit of a tweak. So it's a big time saver and it's also great on the accountability front and, you know, to just kind of get it done. Absolutely.

[00:25:53.180] - Jen Hall
And to walk away with your actual content plan for the entire year. It is a great result in itself, you know, as well as all the other people you've got in there. So what I'll do is I'll pop the link to that event inside of the inside of the show. I just go down there and click that and you can find out a bit more and get your ticket to that. Sounds absolutely fabulous. And I'm really looking forward to getting my content plan out in November.

[00:26:12.760] - Jen Hall
I think it's on its way, so I'm really excited about that. So along the same vein as content, because it's always such a big topic with my audience. So I know we've talked about like worrying about running out of ideas. And, you know, what about repeating I want to talk to you about now. It's all about, you know, on this podcast about getting to that kind of unique market leader status. What are some of the best ways to position yourself as that expert or market leader with your content?

[00:26:39.940] - Janet Murray
So I think the key thing is to not be vanilla and not be like everybody else. There's just so much boring content out there and there's so much safe content out there. There's so much stuff. And I call it like kind of content where you kind of like you see it and you're just like, yeah, whatever. So I think what you're looking today to do is to is to be you. And that doesn't mean that you have to I mean, we can get into this a little bit more, that you have to be, as somebody said to me the other day, showing pictures of yourself in the path not so I thought was such a good memorable way of putting it.

[00:27:17.260] - Janet Murray
But it's about being you. I think a lot of people have this idea, and particularly if they have quite a corporate if they work in a corporate space, that they work with corporates, they're not real people. And, you know, they just want to talk business all the time. But people actually want to get to know you as a person online. They want to know what makes you tick. They want to know about your life.

[00:27:36.250] - Janet Murray
So actually, more personal content, more opinionated content. And, you know, if you are trying to establish yourself as a market leader, like, I mean, who wants to follow a market leader who hasn't got any opinions about anything, who's who, you know, who doesn't lead the way in by saying, you know, or start conversations, you know, even if they're not kind of like, you know, kind of, you know, sharing really controversial opinions but doesn't lead the conversation and say, hey, look, these things happening in our industry, what are we doing about it?

[00:28:08.350] - Janet Murray
And to give you an example actually of, um, so I'm running a class tomorrow on and on teacher training for online course creators. And so I've been banging on today about about how, you know, there's this whole industry, you know, everybody's being encouraged online to launch a membership site, not an online course, like be online, create recurring income, passive income, blah, blah, blah. But actually, there's no one out there that's teaching people how to teach.

[00:28:35.290] - Janet Murray
So there's some appalling teaching online. And, you know, why would you be good at teaching if you've never had any kind of training? But people want the outcome and they want to have all this kind of money and the courses and whatever. But actually, they don't always want to invest in actually just being a good teacher and providing good materials. So that would be the kind of example of the kind of content that you might want to put out if you want to be a market leader, if you if you want to stand out, because it's a position.

[00:29:03.130] - Janet Murray
It's an opinion. It's not everybody's probably going to agree with it. And some people might even feel a little bit uncomfortable. And I'm not saying we can talk about, is it that you rock up and you start? You know, I've been putting content out there for a long time. I'm not saying you work up there and you stop being as happy as that. But I think, you know, if you want to be a market leader, you have to lead.

[00:29:22.040] - Jen Hall
Yeah, I 100 percent agree. And I think that, you know, again, that is a perfect example because the people who do agree with you, all your perfect ideal clients as well, because if they genuinely don't believe that need to be a great teacher, they just focus on the money, then then that's great because you don't really want to work with them if that's if that's your genuine opinion. So it works really well for polarisation. That's perfect.

[00:29:41.860] - Jen Hall
Now, I know we're sort of we're getting cost of accustoming time. And I'm desperate to ask you this last question, John. It and it's one that everybody asks under the sun, and that is great. I've got my nation and I I've got my business idea and I know what I'm doing now. Where do I find my ideal clients? I wanted to chuck a couple of scenarios from a couple of clients of mine to give some kind of solid advice around that question.

[00:30:07.540] - Jen Hall
Is that okay with you? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Fabulous. So here we go. First scenario. Selling luxury styling and lifestyle to women who are in their midlife, they're into luxury fashion and they're the wealthier sort, and that this is a genuine example of someone who said, well, where do I go to find these people who are my ideal clients who would want to buy my product?

[00:30:36.540] - Jen Hall
OK, so and this is like home styling and personal styling, styling, personal styling with a bit of meat on the bones in terms of and she also does a little bit of sort of mindset coaching along with it, because you've got to feel confident in the clothes that you're wearing in an environment you're building for yourself.

[00:30:54.200] - Janet Murray
OK, so the first thing I would do is go back to is like, who has paid you for this so far? Like, so I think this is one of the problems with the ideal client avatars, you know? So I don't know. What does this client have? Have they worked with anyone like this before?

[00:31:09.210] - Jen Hall
In the past? Yes. Yeah.

[00:31:11.070] - Janet Murray
So what I would do is always start with basically who I work with that fits this profile and where do they hang out online.

[00:31:19.920] - Janet Murray
So my first step would be, OK, so, you know, I've worked with a few of these people like this before. Can I set up a zip code or a chat with them or, you know, just just find out a little bit more about where they hang out. I'm guessing that kind of person is probably Instagram. But, you know, I don't think you should build your your content strategy on guesswork. I would really have some conversations with those people.

[00:31:44.910] - Janet Murray
So that would be one aspect of it. In terms of social media platforms, I would be talking to people who you've already delivered that product and service to you so that you can find more people like them, basically. So understanding what their behaviours are, where they hang out, who else do they like? So if they're on Instagram, who else do they follow on Instagram? Do they follow Mrs. Hinche? Do they follow some of the other kind of like and then have a look at, you know, Mrs.

[00:32:06.480] - Janet Murray
Hinch's content since she's the lady who she cut like a footballers wife and she she teaches people how to clean the house. I'm imagining that your client I'm imagining that's the kind of that's kind of what I'm thinking in my head is.

[00:32:20.490] - Jen Hall
And it's a great example. I think this whole, you know, finding those interests is so important, isn't it? Like, what are they interested in going follow these people? Yeah.

[00:32:27.600] - Janet Murray
So say, you know, find out if they find out, you know, who they're following, what kind of content that they engage with. It may well be it's not Instagram. It might be somewhere else. And it might be that they're not engaging at all, which could be another thing. It might be Pinterest. So it might be that they're for that kind of thing. They might be avid Pinterest users. They might be talking to them about how they use Pinterest, like how do they search what kind of boards if they got, because so that's kind of one part of it.

[00:32:54.090] - Janet Murray
The social media part. I probably should have started with the other part first, actually, because social media is not the best place to build your audience, because, you know, I've heard of numerous people recently have had their Instagram accounts closed down. And so, yeah, it's great to be to be there. But if you built your business just on the social media platform, dangerous thing. The other thing is to understand what your ideal customers are clients are searching for.

[00:33:16.530] - Janet Murray
So again, actually setting up some conversations with what you might have to do is to do a little bit of you might offer them a little bit of styling for free or something. You know, if you give me half an hour, I'll give you half an hour something something like that. But understand what they look for online. So, you know, if I'm the person that fits this profile, what am I searching for online? I'm probably not searching for personal styling.

[00:33:41.700] - Janet Murray
I'm probably not searching for for interview starting possibly. But what I might be looking for is ideas on how to wear leather trousers in my 40s.

[00:33:52.450] - Janet Murray
So so it's really understanding. So if you were to talk, say, personal styling point of view, I'm in my 40s, in my late 40s kind of questions that come up for me everyday. Can I wear leather leggings? Is it OK for me to wear knee high boots? Like how do I find jeans that kind of wear this in my 40s kind of way that my 40s? So it's actually really starting to think about that person's behavior on online.

[00:34:15.240] - Janet Murray
And they might also be looking for particular brands. So they might be they might be, uh, when they're searching online, looking for.

[00:34:25.230] - Janet Murray
You know, even particular shops or particular online stores or whatever, so you can create content that's got those in those in them as well. So it's really understanding their behavior and.

[00:34:37.630] - Janet Murray
And getting like we've talked a lot about this, but a lot of people are kind of doing their content strategy on the surface, you really want to dig down like, you know, I'm trying to think of things that might you know, this is be more personal stuff.

[00:34:52.930] - Janet Murray
I mean, I like it just like the other things, you know. Is it okay to wear a thong when you're in your 40s? So that's probably a bad example, but it's what I'm trying to say. It's perfectly fine.

[00:35:05.020] - Janet Murray
I just want to like people. So it's, you know, that's our service level.

[00:35:08.110]
And they're imagining that that people are, you know, a lot people put weight on in their 40s. A lot of people put weight on around their middle. So they might be looking at how to get rid of their, you know, how to dress for their apple shape in their 40s. It might be they put on weight in the menopause, none of which is very sexy. But this is probably more the type of thing that your client is looking for.

[00:35:29.260] - Janet Murray
Maybe they've gone through a divorce and maybe they're restyling themselves in their house after a divorce.

[00:35:33.850] - Jen Hall
So it's really about Ispat problems and it's about paying the absolutely real, real people real questions, because I think you're right. I think it's just time we guess, and we almost have an ulterior motive as to what we think they might once was just kind of fits with our products. But it's about being a bit more intelligent that isn't it? About what are they actually asking? That's just an amazing insight. Janet, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:36:00.070] - Jen Hall
I really, really appreciate it. But before before we leave, I do just want to ask you, where do people find you, Janet? What's the best place to follow you?

[00:36:08.500] - Janet Murray
So the best place to find me is my website, which is https://www.janetmurray.co.uk/ And I am also very active on Instagram. So if you want to find me online on social media, it's at Jeanne-Marie UK.

[00:36:20.480] - Jen Hall
Fabulous, it's honestly been such a great conversation, so many juicy questions answered, I had so many more on my paper, which you just didn't get time to ask, which is such a shame. But we're out of time. But like I said, I think Janet's got all the answers on audience voting and content.

[00:36:34.880] - Jen Hall
So please do. If you offer more information about that topic, do you go for Janet and go find her awesome content that she has out there? And don't forget about the link in the show notes. All of the links to to Janet will be in that in particular for her event that she has coming up. So thank you so much again, Janet, and we'll speak again soon.

[00:36:52.070] - Janet Murray
Thanks so much for having me.