Monthly Archives: August 2020

Aug 26

Why you’re NOT Hitting your Financial Business Goals

By Jennifer Hall | Podcast

Trying to hit 6 figures or 7 figures but feel so far away from it – there’s always a reason why you’re NOT hitting it. In this episode I help you to troubleshoot the exact reason why you’re not hitting the financial goals you’ve set out to achieve. 

Whether you’re experiencing rejection from the start or you’re plateauing below where you want to be, find out some of the key ways that you can fix up your business to reach beyond. 

Useful Links:-

Book a Call with Jen  – bit.ly/claritycallpodcast

Download my free Ultimate Guide to Becoming a Market Leader – http://bit.ly/MARKETLEADERGUIDE

Send your emails to jen@jen-hall.com

Read Full Transcript

Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format.

(00:00):
It's time to troubleshoot your business and find out why you're not seeing the financial return in your business
(00:15):
Hello, and welcome to the expert unrivalled podcast. My name's Jen Hall, your business positioning coach and your Market Leadership Expert and on this episode, I'm going to be helping you to troubleshoot your business, to try and find out why you're not seeing the financial return on investment that you're putting into your business. This is something that I actively do with my clarity calls that I have with prospective clients and also when people are actually working with me, because as always, the journey is around testing and tweaking and finding out what's working and what's not working and whilst you might have one area nailed down, that could be a missing piece somewhere else, which is preventing the flow of wealth and money coming to you. So if you're somebody who's listening to this, just before I kind of crack on with some of the reasons as to why you might be finding, a block in financial return, if you'd like to actually get my eyes and ears on your business, to really look at it and find out what's going on, why perhaps you're not seeing the financial return for the effort.
(01:21):
And that may be at any level, whether that's the fact that you can't break through to your first five, figure six figures or seven figures, then do make sure that you book a call with me in the show notes on that call. We can find out what's stopping you. And also how I can help you within one of my programs or bespoke offerings to help you start moving your business forward and start seeing that financial return on investment. So just click the link in the show notes, or for those of you on the fly it's http://bit.ly/claritycallpodcast or just click the link in the show notes, and you'll be able to book that right in. So then the first thing I want to talk about is around articulation. If you are struggling to get any sales whatsoever, and you're really struggling to find that people that are actually wanting to buy from you, then there's a serious problem with your articulation and your messaging.
(02:16):
Now that's the first sign. If you're experiencing that rejection off the bat all the time, then there's an issue. We need to look at your messaging to make sure that it's as relevant as possible relevant being the key word here. So when we're looking at articulating the value of what you're offering, we have to look at the tangible benefits and outcomes that your particular ideal client is going to want to hear. Now, I'm not going to battle about on about this point too much, because we talk about it a lot on this podcast. But the key things here are to look at why would someone buy this? Who is this specifically designed for? And why is it so urgent that they buy it? How is that going to change their life? What are the consequences of them not actually taking action to buy it? And when they do take action to buy it, what's the wonderful outcome.
(03:09):
Once we can articulate that message and understand why you are such a critical must have, then you will start to see an immediate financial return. Now there are different layers of relevancy and articulation that you can take it to. That those are the basics. Once you've got that down, when you want to take it to the next level too, we stopped being as irresistible and as have, these must have properties as much as possible. Yeah. Clicking ads, creating messaging and supplementary marketing. That's going to obliterate all objections, get those out of the way so that they can feel totally 100% in, on, on a big fat yes to working with you. So that's when it starts taking it to the next level. When you start looking at things like objection, handling and King, how you can start to help them believe that it's possible for themselves and the rules so that you're the right person to do business with, which is what I'm going to come onto in a moment.
(04:10):
But that's the basics. If you're, if this is where you're at and your business, and I'm not going to go into these, I've got to do a quick overview of all of these. If you want to go into any of these into more depth than I seriously suggest you book a call with me, because we can have a look at your business and I can give you some more insider info as to why that might be happening. What's going on for you specifically. So I'm just going to take you through some of the things that will cause these problems. So that's the first thing is articulation. Have you got your messaging down, all you being as relevant as possible, are you specializing that message to a particular person who has a particular problem or wants a particular outcome? We need to make sure that it is niche enough and we have drawn out all of them, the benefits and the outcomes that are gonna make them want to say yes.
(04:58):
When you try and sell a process without actually showing them why they need that process, there's going to be a problem. And so that's really integral to when you're selling you know, recently helping a client with some of the sales page copy and as I was going down, I noticed that they did a beautiful job with kind of like laying out modules and what's going to happen in each month and so on and so forth. But actually what we're doing is we're just telling them what we're going to be taking them through, which can actually feel rather overwhelming. You know, we don't, when we talk about becoming parents for the first time, you know, yes, we hear, yes, we do hear the horror stories and so on and so forth. But if you truly knew everything that you needed to go through in order to have a happy family life, it would probably sound rather exhausting.
(05:46):
And if we didn't talk about all of the other benefits and the rewards at the end of it, we wouldn't want to go through any of that. We would literally just be like, no, I'm good. Thank you very much. Late nights, nappy stinky children. I am fine as I am. But the fact is we know that we're happy to go through those horror stories because we know what's going to come out at the end of that. Now I know I might be talking to some people who don't want kids. That's fine. Doesn't apply to you. In fact, that perfectly demonstrates my point around ideal client and making sure that you understand who you're speaking to because for some people they might not want kids. And so you're actually, yes, the, you know, the rewards of benefits aren't even enough to attempt them. And again, so you need to be, be clear on who you're speaking to to make sure that you are getting your messages.
(06:29):
Right. but yeah, it kind of demonstrates my point on you need to demonstrate all the benefits and rewards and outcomes that they are going to get. So once they go through that process, you're going to be able to achieve what things, what is life going to look like on the other side? How is that going to impact the finances, the mental health, the mindset that general health, their family, their friends, the relationships your own happiness, all of these different things, you know, potentially your, your ability to buy houses or whatever it is. We need to really dig into those specific. And I was quite generalist even then on to talking about the different areas of life that you can talk about. You want to dig really deep to some specific and the where you're going to get specific on those outcomes is by really digging into the particular type of ideal client that you're looking at.
(07:23):
So that's really key looking around a client, looking at that articulation, that relevancy, and really, really hammering in those outcomes effects of working with you. Yes, the process is important and yes, you do need to have a roadmap. And I'm very clear about that. You know, your signature system and understanding, you know, people being able to understand how they're going to get with you from a to B is very important because that's where some of the trust gets, let start, let down, you know, you can go all in on the benefits and outcomes, but when they get on a call with you and they realize actually, you know, always it's a bespoke system, it's too vague. It's not enough for people to stick their teeth into. So they do need to understand that you do process a proven process. Yes, you take your clients through to get them to the T to be able to get those results.
(08:07):
So they are both equally as important, the whole feature benefit thing. But we do need to make sure that we are talking about these benefits. And it's the biggest thing that people miss off is really pulling out those two tangible outcomes towards the end. So yeah, if you aren't seeing that rejection off the bat, then that could be why, the fact that you're not truly looking at those outcomes, not really digging out those tangible benefits that they're going to be going to be able to get at the end of it. So that could be it. And then, like I said, if you're further along in business and you are getting sales, but you're not seeing enough of them, it's about taking that articulation to the next level, looking at banishing the objections, understanding why you're getting those no's because the more noise we get in the more reasons and not just, I can't afford it, cause that's normally a lie the behind the, I can't afford it.
(08:56):
Why they really saying no to you? You know, even if it's harmful or hurtful to yourself, understanding that will really help you to up your game, build your business better and get your marketing on point. So that's the first thing. The second thing that could be an issue for you is the fact that you're not taking enough action or perhaps not taking the right action. So for instance, I see people all the time stuck in strategy mode, clonic, plot, plotting, plotting planning, strategizing getting all that content together, putting it all into one place, but never actually putting it out there into the world. Now, if that's you, then you have a serious issue here. And I actually suggest that you probably go and speak to one of my clients Lucy Alton, who is brilliant at productivity, helping to overcome procrastination and self sabotage, a big shout out to Lucy.
(09:52):
Who's brilliant at that. But yeah, the having that, that problem around not actually taking action and putting yourself out there can actually be for a couple of reasons. You're probably dealing with some months at gremlins that in terms of this there's something under the skin. And sometimes it could be that you're out of alignment with your niche, not all the time, but for some of my clients, I've noticed if they're not fully in alignment with their niche, that there is a problem. Actually they need to be more board with what they're doing in order to put themselves out there. A fear of becoming known for the wrong thing could be hiding and lurking in the background. One of my other clients recently, she was like, I know this makes auto business sense to do it this way. So I've been going with it, but actually I've not been putting myself out there.
(10:38):
And yes, your niche has to make business sense 100%, but you will also need to be in alignment with it. And you need to be happy to go out there and become known for that thing. And if you're not, then you're always going to be hiding and you're always going to be stuck in that strategy mode. So at some point we're going to have to move away from strategy and actually just get out there because also we won't know what works and what doesn't work until you put things out. So that's the next stage. So that could be a big problem in terms of you're not taking any action at all. Now, the second problem that you might have is the fact that maybe you're not giving a call to action, possibly. You're not asking for the sound I spoke about this in the last podcast we did around making a content pop and convert and CTA call to action was a big one.
(11:29):
So not providing a CTA on, you know, on your content or on anything you're doing. Like when you're speaking, you're not actually giving them the next stage and you'll never actually asking for the sale itself. So there's no call to action to buy my thing. Then of course, you're gonna find it very difficult. I'm all for the inbounds, you know, marketing and getting people coming to you, but you do need to let people know that there's something to buy and that they're welcome to buy it. And that they probably should. If they're looking for this particular outcome, you've got to be willing to ask for the sale, give people these opportunities. So have a look and check in with yourself to make sure that you're actually taking action on the right things. You're being visible in the right areas. Cause that's another problem. So don't, I need people not asking for the sale, but you're also being visible in the, in the wrong areas.
(12:18):
So I use the example for instance, you know, when it comes to PR being visible in PR, you know, there are more strategic ways to do it and then be in the Telegraph or national newspaper, unless your demographic is humongous. You're probably not in the right place. Yes. Your ideal client might see you, but you'd be better off going to a publication or an area or a membership that has a much tighter demographic and psychographic say that you know exactly who you're speaking to, that they're all gathered in one particular place. And you all know that they're going to be quality, potential prospects, potential clients that you can convert say, make sure that you're getting in front of the right eyeballs. It is critical to you getting that traction, asking for the sale, being visible in front of the right people and also audience building.
(13:13):
I see this a lot where people are taking a lot of action and being very physical, but again, they're not ever drawing people into that content journey. There's never a call to action to download the freebie or book call or come and join my group or come and look at this or whatever it is. So if you don't guide people to the next thing, if you don't pull them down the rabbit hole with you, then they're always going to be lying on the surface, looking in. And they're never going to get to know you enough to truly get in that kind of sales conversation with you. So putting people down that content funnel is really important. So making sure that actually you're actively building your audience, going out to your following is not really your audience. There are potential clients within that following, but in order to really help them identify themselves, you're going to need to give them opportunities to get pulled through that funnel.
(14:06):
So again, all you taking action. Are you doing those things? If not, that's going to make a significant impact to your financial results as well. Now, this one will speak to potentially a business who is doing well, who is getting clients and so on and so forth, but then you're not breaking through to kind of the multi six figure or seven figure Mark. Now, the thing you have to remember is, is looking at your business model is critical here. Because if you're not providing the right platform in order to scale, then you're going to find it quite difficult to kind of hit that seven figure limit. You can probably do it for multi six figure business. We'll see you probably, you can do that for multi six figure business, but for a seven figure business it's it's can be a lot harder to do.
(14:54):
If you don't start thinking about your ability to go beyond delivering from just you, you need to start thinking about a case of how can I scale this? Is it by growing a team? Is it by digitalizing the product? We have to think about ways to get it out to more people. Is it by lines licensing the product out there? Because if you don't think about that, you are going to find it very difficult. The thing you do have to bear in mind when you're looking at our business model and looking at ways to scale is that potentially the ideal client that you've been reaching out to may not want to receive the service in the way that you are currently delivering it. So by that, I mean, if you look at, for instance, the type of ideal client that I worked directly with my ideal client for this particular business, for my market leader, liquids, this is a high end client who is serious about their business, who is all in committed and willing to spend a high end amount of money to make sure that their business is successful and that's who want to do.
(16:02):
And then, so they're not going to be buying a self study because it got, those are pretty, got a library of them. Some they touch some of they've not, they don't have the time because they're busy working on their business. Guess they just need someone to open the bonnets or really check out what's going inside the, in the engine to work out. Like I said, troubleshooting it, finding out exactly what's wrong and really nailing those things to forward and having a self study. Isn't going to serve that because there's only so much you can do on your own without an actor pair of eyes. So, you know, you do have to be considerate of the type of audience that you're putting this in front of and does the product and the delivery method match that ideal client. So you do have to think about that and you know, some of the bigger money in terms of the volume of money coming through is sometimes on slightly, no around products to it, to a lot more people, but then there's a lot more people at the other end, the newer end of the spectrum than there are, that tends to be at the older end.
(17:11):
So that's where the big money's at. So if you're looking to scale to seven figures in a, for instance, a coaching business, you may have to sorry, a slightly different ideal client we've been used to setting, you know, high end high ticket. Obviously there's ways that you can scale. You can ask them, do you eat up the amount that you're charging people and you could potentially bring on a team of coaches to help you, Brittany, you know, cope with more capacity. But then you're going to have to think about things like, you know, business brand versus personal brand, because you need people to buy into more than just you and your personality. You need to be people to buy into your methodologies, to the way you teach things and to trust those who you've, you've built the team with. So you have to think about business brand versus personal brand.
(18:00):
If you're going to do that personally, you know, here we go, controversial time. I genuinely BVS a personal brand. Is all humans going on about at the moment, you've got to have a personal brand. Yes, but actually it's gone the other way in a saturated market, Phillip personal brands. Another thing that you need to be thinking about is your business brand, because that's really important to build that credibility and that trust and having that balance, especially if you're looking to grow, like I said, you know, into the seven figure, Mark, we start thinking bigger than just you and you know, on your Tod delivering, we need to start thinking about the business as a whole. So making sure you've got the right platform in order to be able to scale the business is very important. And it requires a different thinking. You know, I'm a, I'm a multi seven figure business coach.
(18:46):
I know the differences between the different businesses I have. You know, I know that there's different strategic thinking depending on what business you're at, which is why there's never, this one size fits all method. You really do have to understand that there are there's different advice for different businesses and also different models for different types of businesses as well. So it really just depend on, you know, where you're at, what you've been doing and where you're looking to aim to get to and what industry you're in, all of these things make a big difference to that business model and understanding who you're targeting and where the money is. And so and so forth, making sure that that all lines up and all matches up is very, very important if you want to make those big money. So yeah. So business model, if you don't have the platform, if you're constantly at capacity and you're finding that you've got those issues, then that's probably something that you need to look at and potentially need to shift your messaging and your ideal client and you and your products as well.
(19:49):
The other thing is around aiming high, are you aiming? All yay. Aiming high enough. Are you actually setting yourself goals? Because something that I used to be terrible at setting financial goals, if you're not setting financial goals, how will you ever showing that you're growing? How are you ever proving to yourself that you can push the boundaries and go further? So aiming high is really important. Setting yourself those goals to kind of have a measure. I have a gauge. It's not about like, you know, what happens if I don't hit it, then how am I going to feel sheet for the main and if you hit the stars fantastic. But also you've got to have something to measure against where are you looking to get to, if you don't have the GPS on where you're looking to get to, it's gonna be very difficult for you to actually pop the way forward.
(20:34):
And that might be, you know, if you're, if you're very far away from your goal, but it might be that you've got to take a bit of a Zig Zachary. It might not necessarily be straight that you might not need to have to do a few things first then on the way to help you get there, but at least know where you're aiming for, where you get into so that you have some kind of measure. So it's like, well, I don't feel like I'm getting the financial return. Well, what's the financial return that you were hoping for. You've got to find that out first, before you can measure against whether you're hitting it or not otherwise as well, it works and in a negative in terms of mindset, because if you're never setting a goal, then how are you ever going to feel satisfied from what you're making from your business?
(21:13):
You need to, you know, it's great to always want more. And that's something that we do in our businesses is raise the bar higher and higher each time and do better each time. But she gotta, you gotta raise it somewhere first and foremost in order to feel like, yes, okay, I'll hit that goal. Next one, next one. So have these goals. They are very, very important. Yeah. the other thing to know down around, if you're not seeing the financial returns, we've talked about articulation and making sure that actually you're articulating your offering, right? That you are taking the right action, doing the right things, asking for the sale price sheet, providing specific call to actions. We talked about aiming higher. We talked about the business model and making sure that the business model is right for you know, in order to scale to a higher level, but also you credibility.
(22:04):
So this is kind of the last thing I'm going to talk to you about and this, you know, if you are showing up and you don't have that credibility at, and then again, credibility is quite a broad term. And by that, I mean depending on where you are in your business journey, or you need to have different levels of credibility, for instance, if you're lacking testimonials and any proof, that you're able to do the job, then you're going to be lacking credibility right from the ground because people are going to find it harder to trust you. I mean, those instances you want to be finding, like, for instance, if you are somebody who has already been through the process and come out the other side, then you can use yourself as a testimonial. Absolutely. When you first start, but you need to make sure that the clients that you are helping are closely related to you and your journey, otherwise you're going to lack credibility big time.
(22:59):
You're also going to feel that you lack credibility. So you gonna find it more difficult to sell. So looking at getting those that testimonial, that first testimonial was very important because people need to see social proof. And I would absolutely, for those people who haven't actually ever taken anyone through a process, I actually think you should be doing it for free. You should be going out there. We've referred very normal amount to get that social proof, not just for other people, but for yourself too, prove to yourself that you can do it. And you can take people through this process and so on and so forth. So if I'm talking to any newbies on here, yeah, absolutely go out there and run an offer for either a very normal and amount of, or for free and get some social proof and some testimonials onto your belt.
(23:42):
Get that experience. Cause it, you start feel more confident and you can articulate that confidence over because if you're taking calls of people or your, you know, or even if you're not taking calls and you're, and you're doing your marketing and sales in a different way, it's going to show through in your confidence, whether that is impersonal knots, you know, it's going to be very difficult for you to feel solid and confident enough to say, I can absolutely help you get this result. If you haven't actually done it. There's a lack of integrity that, so it's important that you have integrity. If you've already been through it yourself falling, you've got some integrity, you know, that you can, you can help someone through it. But again, until you've kind of become seasoned, what you do until you become the real true experts, you know, it should absolutely be reflecting your pricing and getting that social proof under your belt before you can really ramp it up.
(24:28):
But I'm talking about, like I said, the real newbies here, another great way to build credibility at any stage is specializing. So again, looking at micro niche, specializing into something very, very specific because when they see that you specialize, you automatically position yourself as the expert in that thing. And they are going to want you above anyone else because in a lineup of master generalists, they're going to want the person that deals with people, exactly like them who want that exact outcome. And you have the exact problem. So specialize micro-niche as much as possible. And that raises your credibility level by miles. Because they know that you're going to be, you know, you're going to be able to help them. And again, it helps your confidence too, because as soon as you start to specialize, you automatically become an expert because you start nailing all of your learning and development in that direction.
(25:21):
And that automatically boosts your expertise. So actually niching more, even if you do feel unconfident a little bit in the beginning, just making that mental step say, okay, this is where I'm going to focus. You can really pull hard in that direction and you will become an expert much quicker than if you remain, brought as well say confidence, it's going to raise your confidence big time. And then obviously your general positioning and there was a seven, well I've had, there's an episode. It's what number is, I apologize. You have to go through and look. But there is an episode specifically on building credit market needing credibility, which I definitely suggest that you listen to it. Cause it's going to give you some more positioning tips, but really looking at sort of certain things I talk about, for instance, creating your unique magic, but it, which is your unique sales points that there's no one else out there doing that particular thing.
(26:14):
You've productized the tangible unique selling point that you can pull out and say, this is why you should buy from me. That is what's going to take you to that market leading level where out of the lineup of people, even if they are like, maybe let's say for instance, you're all specialists are three specialists knew they're trying to pick which Guam, if you've got this unique magic, but it really speaks to them. You're going to be that number one choice. So that's really key. That's one of the first episodes. I think it's the first big episode of this podcast. I go back and have a listen to that one, if you're hearing about the unique magic, but for the first time, but it is that tangible, solid, concrete reason as to why they should buy from you above everybody else. That's going to really help to position you as that's no differentiation standing out of the crowd, all of those kinds of things.
(27:02):
And just finding other ways that you can build your credibility. Not only with social proof case studies testimonials really, really help and actually like turning this, these testimonials into case studies. So you can fully articulate the transformation that that person has gone through and show people the behind the scenes of how you did that without obviously giving away all in some sundry, but you can absolutely demonstrate and show that you had that roadmap map to help them. And that it's a proven process. Social proof is really, really big, but then you've got other things that you can look at the PR angle, but, you know, in terms of boosting your credibility that way and also, you know, positioning, but hosting your own podcast, you know, running your own regular Facebook live show, writing a book, you know, running your own events, appearing on stage, all of these different things here, the really helped to build credibility because you know, integrity is, is, is a big one for me.
(28:02):
But I'm also very aware and not naive to the fact that how good you are, what you do means absolutely nothing. When it comes to sales, it will make a difference, however, to whether you become market leading or not. That's the difference because there isn't a single market leader out there that can treat their customers like crap and still make it to market either level. It's just not possible because you know, you, you have to rely on that third party, credibility of people sharing the good news about your business. And if you're not getting that and you're not getting repeat buys, then there's something there's something wrong when you will never reach that market leader level. So yes, you see people out there without integrity surviving just, but it will turn around, spot them on the bomb. That's it, that's the only solace we can all have.
(28:52):
But really marketing is key. Knowing how to position yourself, understanding how to articulate what you do and the return on investment for the person niching, all of these things has zero to do with how good you are at what you do. It's all about the positioning. So that's key. And if you haven't got that positioning, you don't have that specialist expert become known for a specific thing. Then you're going to find it very difficult to see the financial results or your wanted financial results. You might get the odd few who will buy from you. But in terms of ramping that up, scaling really growing, really going for it really ramping it up to the to the dream financial return that you're looking for. All of those things are absolutely critical that you have in place. But again, like I said, if you want some help, really looking at your business, what's going on for you at the moment and why, you know, where you're at in terms of, are you experiencing rejection off the bats or are you actually making alright money, but you just can't seem to bash through to that next level.
(30:02):
Then make sure you book a call because we can go through the business together and have a look what's wrong and how I might be able to help you to take that business forward and become the number one choice in the market. The link for that call is in the show notes. So do make sure you book that and I hope you found today's episode useful where you can start sort of troubleshoot and think, okay, what piece am I missing here? Is it the business model? Is it the, the, the relevancy in the articulation? Is it my credibility? Is it the fact I'm not taking action and so on and so forth? I didn't, I just say that now I don't specialize in helping people with productivity and taking action. Like I said, Lucy is my go to galfor that. But in terms of, you know, helping you with the positioning piece, helping you really articulate what you do to become, you know, the wanted must have identifying, helping you identify and shape that unique magic, but at that concrete USP differentiation becoming a category of one becoming unrivaled.
(31:03):
Those are all the things that I can help you with. So do you make sure you book a call in, if these things are sounding like the things that you need to be focusing on right then I will still probably be on holiday. Hopefully fingers crossed that in the last episode, sipping a cocktail on my last day. So I I'm back in a little while when you listened to this button and raring to go probably with 1,000,001 content ideas as it does happen when you're on holiday, right? You go there to not work and to kind of sit and be still and chill with family and suddenly all hell breaks loose in the brain with all of the ideas, at least let's hope that happens anyway, because I secretly do love getting those breakthroughs. And when you take a chill break anyhow, I should leave you guys to the rest of your lovely day. I will speak to you. We'll get into next episode.

Aug 19

Two ‘Lines’ to Make your Content Pop & Convert

By Jennifer Hall | Podcast

Fed up of spending hours recording or writing content to just get ignored and see ZERO results? In this episode I’m going to show you two simple ways to make your content grab the attention of your ideal clients and convert them! SIMPLES!

Useful Links:-

Book a Call with Jen  – bit.ly/claritycallpodcast

Download my free Ultimate Guide to Becoming a Market Leader – http://bit.ly/MARKETLEADERGUIDE

Send your emails to jen@jen-hall.com

Read Full Transcript

Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format.

(00:00):
Let's get ready to make your content pop and converts.
(00:13):
Welcome to another episode of The Expert Unrivalled Podcast. My name is Jen Hall your Business Positioning Couch and Market Leadership Expert and today I'm talking all around how to make your content pop and convert using two lines. Now I'm tricking you slightly here because the two lines aren't going to be talking about are actually lines of text, but I will give you all the juicy stuff in just a moment before that. I just want to give you guys a little heads up in terms of what's been going on in the background behind the scenes and the last few days have been absolutely manic because as you listen to this fingers crossed, I should be selling myself in Greece. Now I say fingers crossed because we just don't know what's going to happen. Who knows if we'll make it there under the current regimes, constant changes of regulations and FCA rules and so on and so forth.
(01:05):
But fingers crossed where I should be with a cocktail, I swim up bar in roads in Greece, fingers crossed, keep fingers crossed me and so the last few days have been ups that you make, you know what it's like before you go on holiday or tying up loose ends and do you know what, since I've had this deadline of being on or going on holiday? My participants within elevate have been going absolutely bonkers, getting all the bits and pieces over to me in the program part of the program is that they get to send me anything via the G drive. So that could include sales, copy strategies podcast scripts that they want me to look over call to actions, posts, content, all the things. And so they've literally just been, give someone a deadline. I swear, honestly, it pulls you into action.
(01:57):
It's something that I've talked about on this podcast before around productivity, but they've been sending me all the things in and so they've actually been getting way more done than they would do by, you know, on a Monday and then they would ever know what he do and so I've had all the things to the cap, which has just been amazing. It's been so great to see so much progress happening in inactivate. You know, we've seen people after struggling for a very long time to get any money money in C the seven K seven K sales 10 K months from people who've bouncing back from certain periods of time where things haven't been going so well for them. So I'm really, really pleased to see such great progress inside of the elevate program, as well as people setting up whole new Facebook ad funnels getting evergreen content, going to altar to generate, you know, prospects and clients on top is there's just a hive of activity and buzz going in that now there aren't actually that many spaces left inside of activate, but there are a couple.
(03:04):
So if you're looking to get your business to that next level, looking to become the market leader, whether you are at the stage of needing help to get your message right, really niche it in, in order to start becoming known for something in your market or whether you are actually more established and you've perhaps even got a seven figure business, six figure business, and you're looking to take it to that next level so that you can start to become the number one choice in the market. Then make sure that you get your corporate in with me as soon as possible after holidays, by the way but click the link in the show notes, and you'll be able to go and book a call with me to talk about how you might be a good fit or may not be a good fit for the elevate program.
(03:49):
I like to make sure that the people I work with it's a one-to-one program. So it's not a group experience there is a mastermind group element to it but it's driven by one-to-one coaching and so I want to make sure that the people I work with are going to get the best results possible and that they are the best fit for the program or of course, I've also got clients on at the moment who are working with being on intensives, who aren't quite ready for the elevate experience, but needs help to either niche down, understand that messaging really get to grips with their business model or the programs that they're putting in front of people so that they aren't as irresistible must have. If any of these things are striking you as things that you want help with I also put together a bespoke packages for people as well.
(04:37):
So if you want to chat with me about any of that stuff, make sure that you book a call with me in the link, in the comments so that we can start to get things in front of your audience, that they cannot wait to buy. That's the aim of the game. So anyway, into today's top tips, okay. Now on the reason I'm writing and writing, this is reason why I'm recording this podcast is because I've seen so much awful content out there at the moment is bugging me and the reason why it's awful is often very simple reasons that are so easily fixed and I really just want to put it out there for you guys to really understand that you don't need to have rubbish content creating good content Isn't difficult and there's just a few rules that you need to stick to a few things on the checklist to make sure that you've created something that is going to pop out, get people's attention and then convert them into clients
(05:39):
Okay? So the first of the two things I'm going to tell you about the lines I refer to area is headlines, Okay? I see so much content without a headline is unbelievable. Let people know what they're about to watch if the thing that I say about any content that you put out there is the question that you have to ask yourself before you put it out, is why would someone bother using that time to watch or read this content? What is the point for them? That's really important to ask and if there is a point, great, that's good news. We're on to one step of the journey there, but then we need to think, okay, how have I actually demonstrated that point? Have I actually created a headline that articulate why they should bother spending their time to watch or listen to this content?
(06:31):
Because too many people expect they see these kind of like Facebook, celebrity, jeez, out there and they see all that It'll Paul say, you know, engaging on their posts and their content, regardless now that's great, great for them. But do you know what I found over the years? It's the, actually those people are amazing and you will always find people who are loyalty, who engage with your staff and who really do want it to be that support what you're doing. They are interested in what you have to say, but those regular people, aren't always the people that buy from you and if you want to attract, because buyers, people who are actually going to buy your services, you're going to have to be a little bit more intelligent. You're not creating content for your friends and for your mom who's going to watch it anyway because they're so proud and amazed and love hearing what you have to say.
(07:22):
That's great that they love hearing it, but other people that are putting their money where their mouth saw, no, and so you need to start thinking about being more intelligent about creating content that will get the right people, who to read and watch listen, and the can the right people who will pay and in order to do that, we need to not be lazy and not rely on your regular listeners, your regular people watch your stuff. We want new people, new blood, new, fresh people who are actually going to the right people, the right eyeballs to come and look at what you have doing and in order to do that, someone's coming in cold. They, you can't rely on them knowing you and knowing your stuff and just watching it anyway, you need to give them something to bite and that's why your headline is so, so important.
(08:14):
Now, there are a couple of things that we need to look at when we're looking at writing a great headline Okay? the first thing is around making it relevant, It needs to be super relevant to your ideal client to make sure that it's specific to them so that when they read that they think, ah, okay, yes, this headline, this piece of content is directed at someone exactly like me. So you need to very specific about either a very specific problem or a specific area. Well, you need to actually use their label in the headline somewhere so that they go, ah, okay, fine. That's who you're talking to. You're talking to me because that's what I need to know about. And you want people to resonate with it that much, the only the right people are going to view that, that information. That's what you want to aim for.
(09:09):
Is this going to put the wrong people off and pull the right people in? If it's not doing that, then it's likely that it's far too generic really make it relevant, really make it way more specific as much as you possibly can. And the next thing you need to be looking at is about it being fresh and disruptive what we don't want to be doing. Yes, we're going to make it relevant, but we also want to catch people's attention. If they've seen the same kind of headlines hanging around time, time, again, with so inundated with things all the time, with information, with content constantly on social media, we need to make sure that the content that we're putting in front of people has a unique angle, a fresh, new, disruptive perspective. Now sometimes you can come from a controversial angle and that's absolutely fine, but I always use controversy where like a pinch of salt, you know, use too much salt in something it to get a bad taste.
(10:13):
And by that, I mean is not necessarily too much. So in the one piece of content, but in terms of the, the regular content that you put out there, don't make it all, you know, 90 negative, make sure that you're keeping a good balance and that if you use controversy like a pinch of salt and do the odd posts, it can build huge traction, but again, use it too much. People start to sort of think that you're being very negative and you're coming from very, you know, negative angles. So absolutely state your opinions and get really passionate about your beliefs and really pull that into your content. But at the same time, make sure that you are also disrupting in a, in a more positive way as well. We don't always want to be coming from the negative angle. I'm one of the best ways that you can disrupt positively is actually looking around a new way of speaking, using analogies, using metaphors as well can be really great way because what you want to do is build a paint, a picture in people's minds and abusing analogies can be a really great way to freshen up and find a unique angle on a, an idea that's already been brought up time and time again, because that's the thing is that there aren't any new ideas out there everything's already been done, but usually to find a new way to frame it.
(11:42):
So one of my amazing clients, Lucy Orton, who helps to beat procrastination and self sabotage in high-flying corporate women who want to build a business and turn the side hustle into their full time success story. She came up with a great headline recently around stop scratching the mosquito bite of obsessive thinking. Now, you know, obsessive thinking and overthinking and over complicating matters, or is it something that's been talked about a lot for in space, especially in her industry with the, with the personal development side of things. But she's used this great analogy of this mosquito bite as almost like this itch that they, that, that you have to scratch is such a great analogy that really brings out picture in your mind that really captures your attention, really captures your eye to what you're talking about. So using words like that, using analogies and metaphors can be a great way to disrupt people when they're scrolling and really capture people's attention. But again, you want to make that content as specific as you possibly can as well by really no noting down somewhere in the content who it's for and why that headline is so important why that content is relevant to that person. That should be right.
(13:11):
But having a Headline really is a signpost of getting people's attention and really getting to the crux of what you're talking about.
(13:21):
The next thing I want to talk to you about, which sometimes really leads people down the wrong garden path is that they put the punch lines instead about two lines, see where to tick headline punchlines. The second thing I told you, I was punching lines. One of the biggest mistakes with headlines is giving away the punchline in the headline. You know, you don't want to give away the entire story if you would like them to read more into what you're talking about. So you need to use curiosity to build that intrigue so that they want to click. They want to find out more. And you want to be thinking about that in every line of your content that you write, or, you know, script out for the, for your video or for your audio, your podcast, or whatever you really want to be thinking about how you going to entice somebody into listening to the end, to reading until yet, how are you going to keep them keeping on with what you're talking about?
(14:24):
So don't want to give everything away in the headline, make sure that you're always building intrigue and curiosity into your headlines as much as possible, as well as being useful for potentially as well. There is, you know, you've always got your, your five steps to doing this, how to do that. And all of those types of ones are very useful. And they're great headlines as well because people again, but the curiosity is still built in because they want to know how to do that thing and going to have to read the rest of the content or listen to it, watch it, read it. I'm just going to say, read it for the, for the case of, you know, having to repeat, read, watch, and listen. I may just use, read for that for, for the entirety of the rest of this podcast, just to make it easier.
(15:06):
But yet you want to be building that curiosity in, in some way, shape or form. So they really want to find out what's going on listen to you, whatever. So don't give away the punchline, but do have a punchline that's really important. And the punchline in two different ways here. So you want to make sure that you have a core message and I do this for every piece of content. What am I trying to deliver? The what's the point? So when I came up with this podcast idea, I was thinking, okay, what do I want people to know? What's the learning, what's the lesson here. And that is that your content cannot see you pop and convert. Yeah. And it doesn't need to be showed in. It doesn't need to be ignored. So I wanted to make sure that I gave the information to you guys so that you can start implementing it in your own content to start seeing more traction.
(15:58):
That's the purpose of this piece of content and all such a simple, simple idea, but you have to do it and you will be surprised. And you may even be thinking about how you're doing it and going, Oh gosh, yes, I don't do that enough that we just kind of sit down and we just kind of like pen to paper. And sometimes that's great just to kind of get content ideas flowing, but we also want to be thinking, what am I trying to get them to understand here? What's the point of this and what do I want them to go away and do and realize I'm so transparently on two levels, one that you can change your, your content very easily into something that you can go away and make traction with. But equally so from a, from a, from another perspective, so demonstrating my expertise and showing you how to create good content and showing and demonstrating my knowledge, that will help you.
(16:50):
That will help you understand that if you were to work with me, that you're going to, you know, this is just the tip of the iceberg here. That there's way more to be had from the scenario. And you know this for a lot of people, like I don't, I'm just getting it all out on the table here. I put no, like, you know, I'm not, I don't hide behind anything. I'm very transparent and I'm not going to pretend that I'm running this podcast for a laugh and this podcast absolutely. To help business owners you know, you become the number one position in the market. And there are so many people that take so much value from this podcast that I'm really chuffed and that you can make progress. But I'm also here to demonstrate my expertise and to show you that there is more to be has that when you actually invest money into something, you're going to get way more results.
(17:42):
So, you know, and then that's me being completely transparent with you. So you have to understand what the purpose for other people also, what's the purpose for you, which brings me on to the second kind of punchline, which is your call to action. So as you notice at the beginning of every podcast, because it's where people listen to podcasts, the most is at the beginning people, when they feel like it's ending, they will just kind of like cut it off. You want to make sure that your call to action is at the beginning of a podcast episode. And I always think about my call to action and what I want people to do. And I had someone ask me today, one of my clients to say, do you think I should be putting out some posts as well with our call to action? And my, my answer to that is, well, what's the point?
(18:24):
What is the point of doing that? If people don't want to take any further action, they won't, you know, there'll be many of you listening to this and literally totally fine, by the way, he will listen to it and wait book a call. But they equally, there will be some people who wanted to take that business forward, who really do want to make market leader level. And they don't want to wait for that. And so they want to work with somebody who's going to help take them through that process to speed it up accelerator and get focusing on the right kinds of things who will invest. So, you know, why would you not give a call to action so that people can choose or not choose? Like it's completely up to them, whether they take it forward or not, but as long as you're providing some kind of value to people and that you're giving them the opportunity to move on and work further with you and the call to action might not even be, you know, book a call with me, the call to action could be download my freebie to help you further with this thing.
(19:19):
Or it could be joined my group. It can be something, anything that's going to help take them on that content journey so that they're not just going, Oh, that's enough. You post. And then tomorrow you completely forget that you've ever existed. If someone cottons onto something good, give them the opportunity to dive in deeper and say, my answer is no. Always have a call to action. Don't not provide a call to action, whatever that might be, but give people somewhere to go so that they can find out more dive in deeper if they want to, should they not want to? That's fine. They don't have to do anything. They was holding a gun to their head. So, you know, give those call to actions. You use that punchline, find out, understand the core message for them, understand the purpose for you, make sure that you really kind of given that information in to serve both of those purposes and that you've given them that call to action to go and dive in deeper that you've given them that information.
(20:17):
That's the only way you're ever going to get your content to convert is providing those call to actions. There's also something else that I'll talk to you guys about very quickly, that really, really helps. And it's widely used, but isn't used enough as far as I can see. And that is the problem agitate solution structure. And this is something I teach all of my clients as a basic. It really, really helps in every scenario, not just in a sales scenario, but in terms of giving value, but really helping people to understand their own problems, really helping people to understand who you serve, how you help them. And it enables you to demonstrate your expertise enables you to show emotion and empathy towards what's going on for them. So the way we would craft a problem, agitate solution piece of content is first of all, outlining the problem.
(21:12):
So let's take this piece of content as an example. So, you know, and this is where I'm going to dissect it. Now engage in and watch, and you could have done a much better job here. That's a waste the way. The problem that I see people suffering with is the fact that they have so much content out there that gets ignored. Doesn't make any traction, doesn't convert anybody. And no one even bothers to read, watch or listen to it. That's the problem that I outlined. Now you can really go into agitated. So when we look at agitating, it we're agitating the problem by saying, okay, well, if nobody's clicking or watching your staff, then what is the point? If you creating it, how much time are you wasting creating that content? How much effort and energy have you put in to thinking of that content, writing it all out and then recording it or writing it for nobody to bother to read it?
(22:08):
What is the point? So you can start to see that you're agitating the problem. So you're showing them the impact on that. And the time that they're wasting in that business, running around, doing all of this stuff for nothing, they're not going to see any return on investment. They're not going to see any clients off the back of it. And all you're doing is being a busy fool for the sake of being busy. That's not very productive, it's not constructive, and it's not going to take your business any further. And it certainly isn't doing your positioning, any, you know, any favors tool. So you can see you're agitating it and then you can provide the solution. Now the solution can be some valuable tips and things like I'm doing here. I've just given you two tips here, headlines and punchlines, to help you to start, to get your content, to pop I'd convert, get the attention of people and convert into clients.
(22:57):
And, and, or your solution could also be book a call with me or download my freebie in order to see X outcome, because if you're sick of all of that staff, then this is the thing that you need. So you can use it in a value situation and you can always use it in a sales situation as well, either way. It keeps it really relevant to the people who you're talking to. It keeps your content granular and specific, and it really helps to dive into how that's impacting then to help people understand that. Now the problem may not always be so negative. The problem may also be aspirational that they want to get over to somewhere else. And then you want to be talking in the agitation part of it, around what they're leaving on the table. What are they leaving on the table by not getting over to where they want to go to?
(23:52):
You know, and that's where you'll find the agitation because you will be building that excitement and going look at all the lovely goodness that's over there that you are not seeing. You know, when you see me do that in other ways, again, in full transparency. In other ways, you see me talk about that in terms of, okay, if you want to actually get traction in your business, if you want to actually see yourself, become that number one choice, where you will pick out of a lineup of people doing the exact same thing as you as the number one choice that blows everyone else out of the park. In fact, if you will not to be you, then you need to do X, Y, and Z, and you need to work with me because that's exactly what I help people do. I hope people get chosen in amongst, you know, in amongst the good people as well.
(24:39):
Now in amongst the load of rubbish in amongst a very competitive market and amongst the lineup of very decent people who could absolutely all help you are the client. You want to be the one that's chosen and that's all to do with your positioning, elevating that position, understanding articulation, how you use the language to help people, you know, position an offer that the programs or products, how you build credibility and trust, so and so forth. And that comes into, you know, giving that value, showing people the steps to move forward and, you know, they need your help to implement that. So there are so many different ways in which you can use that problem, agitate solution structure, but it's a great structure that is, is loose enough for it to be different each time, but provides enough structure to go out there and actually start creating some really great content.
(25:37):
That's going to resonate with your ideal clients. So just remember if you are somebody he wants to fast track their progress to becoming that number one choice in the market, then that market leader in their industry, then make sure you do become cool with me in the Shane eights, for anyone listening, who just wants to quickly remember and get it in their smartphone or whatever. It's a bit.ly/claritycallpodcast. And you can book a call with me when I'm back from my holes. We can have a great chat and find out if there's a way that I can help you to really ramp up your positioning around pop your sales and just generally ramp up your business in every way, shape or form in terms of becoming known for something amazing in your fields and that people are queuing up to work with you. So do you make sure you book that call in and I will see you guys

Aug 12

How to Confidently Charge More with Robin Waite

By Jennifer Hall | Podcast

If you’re looking for a listen with a shed ton of truthbombs then this episode is the one to listen to. Robin Waite – Fearless Business Coach & best selling author of Online Business Start Up & Take Your Shot, specialises in helping businesses to step up and charge more and in this episode not only does he drop a few swear bombs (#zerobleeps), he’s also saying it exactly how it is.

  • Listen in to find out why he believes that 25% of business owners don’t deserve to be in business.
  • Why giving away your expertise and undercharging is causing more damage than just putting a gigantic dent in your revenue.
  • How to start confidently charging more and owning your worth.

Useful Links:-

Book a Call with Jen  – bit.ly/claritycallpodcast

Download my free Ultimate Guide to Becoming a Market Leader – http://bit.ly/MARKETLEADERGUIDE

Send your emails to jen@jen-hall.com

Follow Robin Waite –

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ChargeMore
https://youtube.com/RobinMWaite

Get Your FREE Copy of Take Your Shot:
https://fearless.biz/tyspromo

Read Full Transcript

Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format.

Jen (00:00:00):
Get ready to listen to some controversial and fearless conversation with the amazing Robin Waite. Hello, and welcome to yet. Another episode of the experts on libel podcast, my name's Jen Hall, your business positioning coach and market leadership experts. And on this episode, I'm talking to a long time friends and amazing business coach, Robin Waite, who is an expert in helping business owners charge their worth among amazing other things that he does. He also specializes in productization and really looking at how you take your business forward fearlessly. He is a proud father, dedicated husband, and eight key surfeit and cyclist. He's also a best selling author of online business startup and take your shot, which by the way, are both amazing books. And he absolutely loves helping business owners to charge their worth. He ran a marketing agency for 12 years before a breakdown in 2016, which led him to closing his agency and opening the doors to his coaching practice, fearless business.
Jen (00:01:17):
And he really is that he really is fearless. He really does say what he thinks, what he means. He calls a spade, and that's what I absolutely love and adore about Robin is that you can have such real conversation with him. So I'm going to let the recording roll so you can finally hear the conversation between Robin Waite and I to find out all of the juicy gossip around what we think around some very controversial topics and also how to start charging your worth and where you might be going wrong with your marketing. So I am super, super excited to be here with the amazing Robin Waite. Thanks so much for joining us.
Robin (00:02:01):
Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. it's not a day too late either. Cause I've been looking forward to this for ages.
Jen (00:02:07):
I know, honestly, I can't, obviously I know where we're doing a bit of a show stop as well. And we've got, we got the two recordings almost back to back today, which is going to be amazing. So I'm excited to have the conversations from different perspectives. And just while we're actually talking about your show Robin tell us what just immediately, where can we go and see that often author listen, listeners have listened to this episode?
Robin (00:02:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So my podcast is the fearless business podcast and actually we'll be streaming it live into the our Facebook group, which is called confidently charge more
Jen (00:02:38):
Fantastic. Excellent. So I'm assuming people can just go in there and ask to join free group, right? Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. Fabulous straight into the promos. I like it.
Robin (00:02:49):
There's nothing unsettled here at all. Jen, it's just showing this plugs all the way through. Sorry.
Jen (00:02:54):
I like it. It's the way it is. I love, I love transparency in selling, promoting, you know, I don't love, I don't, I really don't love the whole kind of like thinly veiled sells and what they, you know, if you're going to sell just to sell, stop, hiding behind stuff. I'd also, you know, if you've got something to say, just say it, stop hiding behind it. So, I'm loving the transparency. And I think that, you know, I love what you do. So just kind of like, you know, your groups called confidently charge more and like I've already introduced you to the audience, but can you tell me a little bit about what drives you to help your clients and, you know, business owners in general to charge more? what made you niche into the angle?
Robin (00:03:38):
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I, but previously to becoming a business coach, I run a marketing agency from sort of 2004 to 2016, so 12 years and I probably, if I'm being honest, I like, we struggled through most of that. Cause I didn't know what I know now around sort of productizing stuff and you know, packaging up your offer and actually charging, you know, basically what you're worth. So we spent ages hustling thinking the right way to grow business was to just fill our business up with tons and tons of clients. And actually it ended up kind of almost destroying me by the time we went through the recession in 2008, we made a couple of really great changes in terms of, from a pricing perspective, which I learned a lot from, which kind of saved our business when everybody else was kind of going out of business and from there by the time I got to 2016, I guess I was just a bit tired without boring you with the whole story, had a bit of a an emotional sort of mental breakdown and then set up the coaching practice and realized that actually the bit, which I enjoyed the most about my marketing business was helping business owners to just change their mindset around how they were selling their product. So evolved from that basically.
Jen (00:04:46):
And that's really interesting, just picking up a point you sat around you really felt that it saved your business and there could be some listeners on here now, you know, particularly in the midst of this, a pandemic, a potential second wave watching, you know, the economy hanging on by a thread who are perhaps worried about their business, you know, why do you believe that charging more safety or
Robin (00:05:13):
I mean, essentially you've got to, you've got to look at a business it's a bit like or you imagine a little fear chink, potentially the little fit 500. So it's got the 500 CC engine. Imagine if you added rocket fuel into that car's engine, like it's going to do, it's going to do one thing only. It's going to probably go no faster, but it's probably going to break the engine at some point and explode into a little, you know, ball of fairy dust, Dustin Pixies cause rocket fuel is obviously designed for rockets is not designed for fetching, which CentOS. So in this really shit analogy, Jen the fit engine is the business engine. So that's, you know, your marketing, your products, your sales, all of those different things. But then actually the the rocket fuel is then adding more clients that business.
Robin (00:05:58):
So most businesses, because they're so small they they've got these inherent problems in there, but they never get found out cause the business is tiny and as they start to scale, the cracks start to kind of open up and more problems start to exist. So one of the challenges, you know, I saw it when the crisis kind of kicked off, you know, back in March, and you saw all these people who were kind of doing fire sales, they were discounting massively. And I remember there was one particular person. She does. She teaches people how to build e-learning programs. So everybody's like rushing to go online and she she's got a fantastic program and it's probably like, it's way too cheap. Anyway, she was selling it for about 600 pounds. She discounted this thing down to 150 quid. What she didn't realize was so 75% discount, what she didn't realize was though, and I'd warned her.
Robin (00:06:45):
I said, if you do that, you're going to fill up all of your capacity. Cause some of it involved her time to teach these people a little bit of done for you, work as well to actually get them to a point where they could launch their courses. So of course, a week later she's finding that going Robin, my program's full and I can't let anybody else in for two months. What do I do? And now I've only made like the same amount of money, but I've got four times the number of clients it's like, there's nothing you can do. You've gone totally sabotage your business by vastly undercharging and you haven't realized actually your capacity have, cause you've got kids.
Jen (00:07:16):
Genuinely makes me want to cry. Cause I hear about this so often where this has happened and to be fair, I mean, at least she managed to fill her program because 70 times to see people thrash that prices and then also get surprised when they still don't see the outcomes either. So, wow.
Robin (00:07:32):
What was the biggest challenge she's got now is that she burnt through her warm audiences. So what that means is all of the Goodwill that she'd built up. Pre-Crisis, she's got all those clients and they've spent the 150 quid on my program. Now they're going to come out this, you know, she's going to come out of this, sorry, I'm having no clients left to actually tap into, she's got no audience left because you sold to all of them. You know, one of the things that we were talking about throughout the crisis was double down on your audiences, like double down on, like, if you come out of a, a long crisis along recession like this, and you've got two, three, four times the number of people in your Facebook group or on your YouTube subscribe to your YouTube channel, I'm following you on Instagram, when you've then put an offer out, you're going to have four times the amount of attraction as you would have had beforehand. So it's kind of like just gotta be patient and wait for the right opportunities to come along. Too. People are too quick to step over the pounds to get to the pennies when something like this kicks off
Jen (00:08:25):
Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think we saw those kinds of that, that panic in business where people were, you know, slashing when actually for instance, when people were looking at, you know, selling things like a house, you know, go online and it was a really sweet premise that people coming on, you know, well, I'm looking to help people who aren't perhaps online move online and I'm doing it at this price. Do you know, to help people, but at the same time, genuinely believe that they've doing in business wise
Robin (00:08:57):
And, in actual fact that doing their customers a disservice as well in the same process. Cause I mean money didn't just evaporate, but people stopped spending. So the redistribution of sort of, I guess, money across, throughout the business community totally shifted and you've got people who've now gone and spent 150 quid on a course. What she also forgot to tell them was that once they've built their course, they've now got to go and market it, which costs time and money and find new clients for their online course and for most people because it's effectively you know, it's a completely different product to what they were selling before. Albeit some people might have just been doing, you know, face to face work, you know, with clients in a service type business. The, you know, this is like an online version of it, but effectively it's a different way of delivering the same product, which means that actually there's a different market for it as well. So not only if you've got the challenge of like, I'm delivering this to a new market, you've got to create a whole new audience for it, which costs time and money. And now we're also seeing people, unfortunately, her clients getting a bit sort of disgruntled. Cause I like, I wouldn't realize I had to go and market it once we built it. I thought it would kind of just sell itself, which is just a bit dumb, really
Jen (00:10:05):
A hundred percent and so, you know, in a way it's been sold secondly, is that, you know, by doing that with training people that this, you know, this is a one size fits all one and done approach. When in fact that's not how you run a business at all this, there's a life cycle of various cogs that you have to have well oiled in order to get everything working together. So yeah, I think that, you know, it's a shame and we saw a lot of you know, supposedly supposedly business coaches or people who weren't business coaches who overnight became business coaches wanting to help people and actually, I mean, in honesty, but they just weren't qualified to, which was actually quite scary.
Robin (00:10:48):
Well that, and also again, what they're doing is they're kind of, you know, loads of people out there helping people for free, which undermines the economy in a way because business coaches rely on having clients pay them money in order to kind of you know, be able to grow their businesses and help more people. So if you've got a load of people out there offering it, which is very commendable, like go and help as many people as you can, we will want to club together during this crisis. But if somebody's an inexperienced coach giving stuff away for free takes the work away from an experienced coach, you can get better results, but also gets paid a decent amount of money for the work which they do. It's kind of, again, it's just, it's negatively impacting that kind of distribution of wealth throughout the kind of business community. And those poor clients as well. They're kind of, you know, Oh, it's free, it's nicer and Oh, we didn't get the result that we wanted a nd then they think that they look badly on kind of the bit business coaching community because they unfortunately worked with a shit business coach.
Jen (00:11:44):
I'm Jefferson, you know, it is damaging to the industry as a whole. I think the good news is, is that, you know, without sort of blowing my own trumpet and blowing, you know, you're, you're Trump is, you know, there are great business cases out there. And I think of, fortunately we stand out as an example of people who get results for their clients and so I think, and that's why, you know, I talk about, for instance, making sure that you become a market leader because it is the, the Nancy nobodies who are literally going to have, you know, even if they have their five minutes of fame, we see it all the time. You've seen it over the years, people being a flash in the pan, rising burning people, taking whether it's a small amount of money or a large amount of money from people burning them.
Jen (00:12:30):
And then, you know, coming through that, unfortunately I think as well as the, you know, the salvia people out there, the salvia business owners also have now, whether it's been through that hard lesson of being burned will actually come through the other side and we'll see those who are in it for the long haul, who aren't the flash in the pants who do get consistent results for their clients. You know, we have a responsibility, I think, to show people that, you know, not to give up that, you know, it's, you, you're not wasting your money and that's something actually we were talking about before this wasn't around, you know, people, particularly around this time, we've seen people reflect on their business and sort of make a decision about, you know, we've seen a lot of Deadwood disappear. And actually I want to touch upon that point because you gave me a really hard hitting line just before we hit record on this podcast. And I was like, I really want you to talk more about that here. Because you have quite controversial belief around that, what I call Deadwood.
Robin (00:13:32):
Yeah. I mean, I'm probably gonna offend a few people here, so apologies. But the thing is ultimately, you know, the people that are listening to this, they will know if I'm talking about them and ultimately the ones who've kind of made the sacrifice and kind of work through this crisis will equally be proud of the fact that they've got through it and stuck with it. My point about it, like when we were chatting before was, you know, there's 6 million businesses registered in the UK at the moment. Most of those are small sort of one man bands, freelancers you know, people, self employed people working on their own. And in my opinion, for a long time, that number has been way too high. We did reach an equilibrium in 2019 where the same number of businesses started up as went out of business.
Robin (00:14:11):
And that's the first time in about 30 years that the two of kind of finally a number of businesses starting up is finally plateaued. My opinion is 25, 20, 25% of businesses out there that just don't deserve to be in business. There's people who just not serious enough about their business. And it was highlighted, you know, March 23rd comes around, they announced locked lockdown. And what's the first thing people do is they panic and go and start working at Sainsbury's now, which is commendable, by the way.I couldn't do that. The way I look at it, it's like, you know, I'm so passionate about my business. I would never want to give up on it to go and get a job in Sainsbury's. Now don't get me wrong. I'm grateful for the fact that those people did that and people do work in those key roles because it's something which I have chosen not to do, but what it does tell me, and this is the controversial part is that actually they don't care enough about their business to stick it out. They're not willing to ride the rough times as well as the smooth times and quite frankly, I hope they stick at working at Sainsbury's. You know, we need less businesses in the UK in order to allow a proper distribution of wealth and to see the best of the best, like the cream always rises to the top. We need to see the best of the best businesses working in this country to pull it forward and pull it out this out this crisis
Jen (00:15:25):
A hundred percent and I think, I just want to reiterate my standpoint in this,like I agree with you wholeheartedly that I do believe that, you know, exactly, as you said, that there are so many businesses out there that really shouldn't be in business, because what they're after is the freedom thereafter, all of the perks of being self employed, running a business, all of those, you know, you're the, the loader of your time and all of those things. But actually what they're creating is just actually, you know, another job that they have to do that is actually, when you look at it for a lot of the businesses I'm talking about, they're underpaid, they're not getting paid on a day. They don't have, you know, sick pay. They don't have all of the perks, actually that job gives them. So they're actually ending up whilst they thought that that dream of having that, you know, that Lord over there that time, it's actually, isn't the reality of the situation.
Jen (00:16:19):
The reality is that they're busy, fools, but you know, there are people before now who, you know, I've worked with who were running two jobs and the some point I want to make clear here from my perspective is that I think, and I think you'll agree Robin is that, you know, it's great that you are working as well to invest into your business, you know, to ensure that your family is safe to sure that you are financially stable because running a business through fear and when you're worried about money is never a good idea, but I think what's happened. We've seen with this recent pandemic is actually, a lot of people have used this as an excuse to just not bother and so they've gone off to get other jobs because it's just been like, Oh, what's the point anymore?
Jen (00:17:03):
And I've seen a lot of businesses who actually, weren't making a lot of money before, you know, it's still, aren't now using this. This is an excuse. And I think those are the people that need to take a long, serious, hard look in the mirror and decide whether they're cut out for this or not. So in that respect, I think that you were a hundred percent, right, but you've got to give you stuff, kick up the bottom to go is, am I up for this? Am I up for everything? And I don't know about you Robin, but there's a, they really is. I've heard this years ago, but how do you really truly feel like I understand this now is that there is a difference between a business owner and someone who is self employed and I do believe the self employed are creating these busy jobs that you have to be willing to delegate 90% of the do to other people. Otherwise you are just, you're just running around. I don't know what you think.
Robin (00:17:56):
I always talk about the business, do a versus the business owner and we always kind of teach people to try and become the business owner having people working within that they're sort of teams, but it's really interesting, like for me, businesses if you were to break it down for me, it's like 90% hard work, 9% risk and 1% luck and most business owners aren't that they're too afraid to actually take responsibility for the 9% of risk. And if you don't do any one of those three things, by the way, your business is gonna fail. It's really interesting. When you think about things like the bounce back loan scheme, for example that I've been in business for 16 years and, you know, I followed business for you know, most of my teenage years as well before that trying to understand and learn about it.
Robin (00:18:43):
And the bounce back loan scheme is like the safest form of borrowing we're ever going to have in business in our generation. I think probably for the next 50 or even a hundred years and yet people are still too afraid to take it out. Oh no, Jen, I can't possibly borrow money to invest into my business. Well, again, that's a little clue for me that if people don't take out the bounce back loan to help their business move forward or survive this crisis, they don't really believe in that business enough. It's the same as like, before this, when you used to get a lot of like tech startups, for example and I used to see a lot come through sort of the local growth hubs and and things like that. And come along to my workshops and my networking events and that they've got this dream whereby they're going to raise a hundred thousand pounds worth of startup capital seed capital.
Robin (00:19:27):
And I asked the question like, cool, how much money have you put into this then? And they're like, Oh, nothing. I'm like, okay. Why wouldn't, why don't you put anything into it? Why don't you borrow some money to get this off the ground whilst you're waiting for that seed funding to come in? Oh, it's too risky. Oh, right. Okay. So it's okay for somebody else to risk their money in your business, but it's not okay for you to risk your own money. Do you really believe in this thing? And then they look at you quizzically and kind of go, yeah, I kind of get what you're saying now, Robin, cause like at the end of the day, any business requires some element of investment. It requires some element of risk. It doesn't matter how big or small your businesses, we could be talking 500 pounds of 500,000 pounds of 500 million pounds and you look at the big sort of businesses out there. But at the end of the day, you got to double down on it. If you believe in it enough,
Jen (00:20:11):
A hundred percent, I think you're going to have skin in the game. Haven't you, if you haven't got skin in the game, then, you know, like you said, you were always going to be falling back on, that comfort zone or that security [inaudible], you've got to really go for it. You've got to really believe in what you're doing and I actually think if you're, if you're listening to this and you're like, actually I am concerned about investing and, you know, putting something on the line, risking something, then you, have to really look at that business idea and I actually believe, and I think, you know, something I want to quiz you around Robin is that this brings us nicely into this whole articulation, which you talk so much on this podcast that, you know, sometimes I think that people really truly understand the value that they deliver and I know you also, you know, the same wavelength as me on this. And so that's possibly why, you know, they're doubting their idea because they put the idea out there and they've not received the response that they wanted and so therefore they start to doubt the, you know, why should I invest in something that isn't going to do? Well, what do you have to say to people who are on that, on that, on those lines?
Robin (00:21:17):
Well, I, this is why I'm kind of slightly compassionate show and take a less harsh hard line here. I think a lot of human beings, people in business that just too humble and they don't really want to go around sort of shouting about, you know, bragging about their results and their clients get you know, which, which is good in a way shows that they're sort of genuine ethical, nice, humble, you know, lovely human beings. But if other people can't see the results, which you get, there's nothing tangible there for new prospective clients to actually get hold of. So one of the things we talk about a lot is like, make it, make it really practical and tactical, like go out and get case studies, reviews, and testimonials from your clients. Let them tell that story about how good you are. Let them tell a story about what the transformation was, which you took them through and what sort of results which they got through working with you and your business.
Robin (00:22:06):
And after a while, you know, for example, on our website, we have a client success page and we've got, you know, half a dozen video testimonials, we've got about 20 different social snippets where clients have shared their wins. We have a case study pack, which we send out to clients, which has a whole load of snapshot case studies and four professionally written case studies. So we shout about our results, but in a, in a a sort of quiet a way as we possibly can. So we gradually kind of feed this information to people to show them what we can do and obviously that the best form of business you can win is three referrals. You know, somebody there saying Robin's amazing, or Jen's amazing, like you're just going to pick up the phone and wants to go and speak to them.
Robin (00:22:44):
So super important, obviously, you know, we to collect those case studies, reason testimonials, but also one of the things I've noticed is kind of looping back to something you said at the start. And we're talking about kind of the coaching industry is one thing which I've noticed about a lot of coaches is they're not really willing to put that skin in the game. So especially when it comes to money. So if somebody is investing several thousand pounds in a, in a, in a coach very rarely do coaches offer any kind of money back guarantee. And the thing is I was listening to a an interview with Jay Abraham. I don't know if you've heard of him. So he's one of the founding fathers of sort of copywriting and direct response copy and stuff like that. Absolute legend.
Robin (00:23:23):
I got some really fascinating things to say, and then interferes listened to last night, somebody, somebody asks him the question about the money back guarantee. How do you actually articulate, how do you position it so that it doesn't sound gimmicky or like it's forcing the sale and he said, well, all you've got to do is just say, you know, make it like the perceived value sort of guarantee. So what I mean by that is, you know, it's not about like take therapists, for example, they can't guarantee to get somebody's confidence up to a 10 out of 10, right? Because it's the mind the body people are unpredictable. You can't guarantee the results, but what you can guarantee is that person, that client is going to go through some kind of an improvement during the program. So if your recommendation is your platinum program, which is you know, three months, 12 sessions from there, where, you know, you're a two out of 10 on the scale of confidence, we're going to at least push to get you up to six, seven, and eight, if we do better than that.
Robin (00:24:18):
Great. But our guarantee is if you get to the end of the 12 weeks and you don't feel that you've had value for money, then we'll talk about refunding you. Because actually, if I can't help you, I don't want to take your money. And actually when you position that to a lot of and it's not just coaches, this is any business owner. There's some really interesting things which starts to kind of come out of that. So the first one is what given their money back. And they're like, because most of the time, as you said, business owners are literally living hand to mouth. They need the sale to pay their mortgage and put food on the table and they've got, fuck all savings. Sorry to put it crudely, you know? And so they've got no fallback. So if a client asks their money back, it's a massive drink cause they've already spent that money.
Robin (00:25:00):
So that's an issue. The second thing is their confidence in their ability to deliver and get results. So I have no quibbles like offering money back guarantees. If somebody turned around to me and said, Robin, your program is shit. I haven't experienced any value for money out of this. I haven't got the results which we discussed at the start. I'd be like, cool, here's your money back because it's not worth my reputation to be selling something which I can't deliver on. Yeah. But also I'm confident because I've had hundreds of people come through my program now. And 98% of them have got the result and the two who didn't it was their own damn fault because they didn't put the work in. So, you know, and one, I just paid off just cause they were such a pain in the ass. I just, I was fed up with them.
Robin (00:25:39):
I just wanted to get them out of the program out of the way. You know, so I think, you know, whenever we're buying it doesn't have to be coaching, but whenever we're buying any kind of a service we should always post pose the questions to them. Do you offer any kind of a money back guarantee? What results outcomes can we expect from this? What's real. What do you think is realistic? And you know, let's get that written to an agree and into an agreement and if you've got a business owner who's hesitating over that, that tells me they're not terribly confident.
Jen (00:26:06):
Yeah, no, I'm not. I think there's a couple of views about that and I think you're, you know what you've said that you've put it really eloquently around that confidence and you know, and I have certain guarantees, I offered to certain clients depending on where they're at. I think there's an argument, you know, around that commitment level to doing it and knowing, and I think, you know, I'm always about the great, there's never a black and white answer and, you know, particularly across different types of businesses, different types of business models, different types of programs and things like that, that, and services that we put up you, I think for me, I think it's great what you said, and I completely agree, but I think for some businesses it doesn't work. I think that actually, you know, that guarantee can work really, really well in a certain business model.
Jen (00:26:56):
But you also have to just as a kind of like an FYI caveat that you also have to look at your upfront costs as well and things, depending on the business, because we've got, you know, if you're talking about coaching services where it's kind of like no skin off your back, or you've got no kind of upfront cost that you have to. So they can't, then I think, you know, it, that's a very bold statements make, cause you just put it. And I think that that provides a lot of confidence to your clients today that you are, you are willing to put your skin in the game on behalf of them. And I think you've got to put a good prequalification in process as well to make sure that people that you are actually saying yes to on that bats that they are committed to the, to the process because you do want committed clients, not just people that are gonna go through and then go, well, it's great. I can just get my money back at the end of it. Yeah.
Robin (00:27:39):
There's always going to be one dickhead who will try and grow them out of it and get their money back, unfortunately. And as much as you can try and assess and qualify people before they come into any kind of a program or by any kind of a service there's always one, but we won't talk about that one. That one dickhead assessment,
Jen (00:27:55):
I can't wait because I can't do as well. No, we didn't. We went, we don't want to say there's no point wasting energy and time on the right back, same situation. And in that, you know, whenever I get to the point, because I take it upon me, like to make sure that I've done that pre-qualification like you said, you will do your utmost to make sure that you get the best clients through the door. And you know, you go through that process and you get that whole, yeah, I'm a hundred percent in I'm a hundred percent. Yes. When actually reality, they were about a 50% that they're giving you the hundred percent because they know that's what you want to hear. And they think they feel like that's where they want to be. But the reality of the situation is that they weren't, and aren't given, as you said, like money, but I didn't want people in my programs who aren't committed, who aren't doing the work that I dread having calls where, because it's just like putting people over hot coals every time, because it's like, well, will you be done anything this week?
Jen (00:28:48):
No. Okay, great. Well this is going to be productive. Like there is absolutely no point in pulling people like that through which is why I never pull people through sales either. Like, if they're like a super like, well, I don't know. I don't know. And they're not willing to risk something if they're not willing to invest, if they're not willing to put their money where their mouth is, but I'm not, I'm not willing to waste my time and spend that with them either. So that's what I mean about prequalification, but I absolutely a hundred percent back, he walked on that. You've got to have confidence and you know, you have to offer some, you know, a guarantee of some kinds. I think that actually, I think, you know, again, agreeing with your head, I think that's where a lot of people have problems because you've got to guarantee something, you gotta have some kind of confidence behind what you're doing.
Jen (00:29:30):
Yes. You might not be able to guarantee. So for instance, you know, we've just had a 1.4 million launch. You know, when people come to me, I'm not guaranteeing that that's going to happen for them because different, different point, different journey, different model, all of those kinds of things. I can't guarantee the same results. But what I can guarantee is that is, you know, loads of other micro moments and, and things that they definitely going to be able to do, that they can position themselves as a market leader and then eventually get there. But you've got to back up something because if you're not willing to guarantee a result of some kind, then why would anyone pay you right.
Robin (00:30:07):
A hundred percent. I think it touches upon the motivation behind sales as well. Because I, I, I mentioned earlier on so many, in fact, I'm going to come at this from a different direction. I call it the dirge of Facebook. Like, don't get me wrong. Facebook's been a brilliant tool for business over the last sort of 15 or so years. And it's only gonna get better and grow as kind of Facebook invest more time and money into the group side of things and monetize that side of it. But how often have we had people who all send you a message in messenger? And I, I bet a lot of your listeners are going to be kind of nodding at this point saying, Hey, I've, I've just seen that. You're amazing coach, how much does coaching cost? And there's always like, I would hesitate at that point, you know, because as we all know that it's way too soon to kind of qualify that person in messenger and actually give them a price.
Robin (00:30:51):
And a lot of people use that price as a filter to qualify people out. And I did a little study and actually most people who are kind of window shopping, just purely on price, about 40% of them. If you actually gave them a bit of education first, before you gave them the price, they would actually become clients rather than walk away. So we're actually turning away a lot of prospective clients thinking we're doing the right thing by filtering them out. But the dirge of Facebook is really one of the reasons why I kind of brought that up is because people are too quick to give out the prices. They're too quick to get the sale because they're so desperate to get the money in for themselves to pay their mortgage and put food on their table. And so what, what happens is without having the right sort of level of education in your pro about your programs, your products, your services, without having that assessment qualification process in and rushing to the sale means that you will be filling your business up with pain in the ass clients who don't really get your value or understand quite how you work because you were too quick to get them into your program.
Robin (00:31:55):
I remember once I used to have a a, a paper based assessment foreman but three years ago I moved into an online form using great little app. And within the first few weeks of sending out, I got a message from a very excitable, young 21 year old fitness professional. And she said, I've heard great things about you, Robin. I really want to work with you. Like how much does coaching cost us for? We do that. We've got to, we've got to jump onto a call, but I need you to fill out my application form. And I kid you not, the answer I got back was I don't have time to fill out a silly little form. Right.
Jen (00:32:31):
It sounds like a great car client material there.
Robin (00:32:34):
Yeah. But I have a three, three strike policy. You've got to piss me off three times before I tell you to fuck off. So, so you've got tolerance. So I have a little bit of tolerance. Cause again, you know, if you felt too hard too soon, you might miss out on a couple of options, like diamond clients who just don't quite fully get it. So I went back to her and I said, that's great, but I'm going to give you 30 minutes of my time on a call. So be really grateful if you could, you know, fill out the form. So she goes way, looks at it, doesn't fill it out. She comes back to me and she says, Oh, I looked at your form. I didn't think any of the questions were appropriate. My first question, Jen is, do you have a business plan?
Robin (00:33:07):
How is that not appropriate for any business? Right. So at that point now I'm angry. So two strikes and now it's just like, right. Go and fill out the fucking form or just fuck off. Cause I don't have time for this, you know, if you want to speak to me, do it. So next day I got a message saying, Oh, I found somebody else. I was like, well more for them. Good luck. You know, but kind of it made it easy for me cause I was going to fire her anyway. So having, but the nice thing about it is like that some people see the like online application forms and assessment forms and things like that as being an online diary, booking systems as being like not personal, it depersonalizes it, but like, no, these are little filters to gather information before you actually get to sit and spend 30 to 60 minutes with an expert and speak to them. You know, so it's, it's worth a little bit of investment of their time in order to get access to that
Jen (00:33:56):
A hundred percent. Cause it, it brings them to a better awareness as well. It helps them understand that problem better because so many times people, they panic outreach and they want help, but they don't feel that they can't fully articulate what's going on. If they get onto a call with you and they can't fully articulate what's going on for them, then how on earth are they going to be able to make a good decision for themselves? And how are you going to be able to identify if you can even help? So it it's imperative, isn't it. And particularly going back to this guarantee thing, if you're going to offer a guarantee, you need to, you need to make sure you've got all of the information that you need to do, you know, to make sure that you're taking the right calls, that you're getting the right information, that you're getting the right people through and that you're doing that prequalification. It's just essential. Isn't it?
Robin (00:34:41):
Well, I had a, an interesting one. So I don't know about you Jen, but I record every single sales conversation I have now with with prospective clients, I've got about 205 stored up from the last 18 months in, in a, in a directory on my computer. And what was interesting is we had a client the other day who kind of we were, I was kind of pushing it pretty hard because she wasn't really doing the work and she pushed it back onto me and said, Oh, this isn't what you promised on the call. And so I was like, Hey, go and have a quick listen to the call. And I found that the bit where I went through, Hey, you've got to, you've got to login to the portal, watch the videos. You've got to fill out the workbook and share pictures of you filling out the workbook into the group.
Robin (00:35:19):
And you've got to show up for the weekly. Cause I said, you've kind of, you've done some of it, but you've done about 60% of the work. And when I said those things to you, you went, yes, I can do all of that. And she was like, I didn't really have a leg to stand on. Do I? So there's a part as well where I think with any, you know, I've worked predominately with service based businesses is different when you're kind of eCommerce or product based. But with service based businesses, like it's worth documenting every step in your process and each of your client's journey through that process as well, to make sure that they've, you've kind of done everything, you know, just in case they do come back and they don't fully understand, like if, if something's gone slightly wrong, you know, and a good example of this is, for example, if I'm say, for example, if you book somebody onto a call without getting them to fill out an assessment form and then you get them into the program and actually things don't seem like something missing here, you can actually go back and say, Oh damn.
Robin (00:36:09):
And it gets for like the assessment form. I miss some key bits of information and you can, you can kind of piece those bits of the jigsaw together and start to repair it. But again, like systemize and automate that stuff, like it shouldn't be a manual process. It should be nice and easy.
Jen (00:36:23):
Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think, again, that goes back to just getting on your point of documentation and things like that is, again, that it's that transparency. Like I said, if you're going to sell, sell, and also be transparent about what people are getting, what kind of results can they expect? What, and you know, what can't you guarantee, but be transparent about all of these things, because you know, it builds confidence in those that you are setting too as well. So I think that it's, you know, that, that transparency across the board, I love that you recall, I think it's a great tip actually, because you know, you're confident in what you're telling people on those calls, you know, and you can be as transparent as you possibly can on them. And then you've got that, as you said, for those that, you know, which are Brown, you say, I don't have many of, you know, many tools out of the hundreds of clients I've worked with to do that.
Jen (00:37:09):
But you know, for the few that do come across and there are hoping for miracles without actually having to do any work, you know, you've, you've got that stock you, I think that's, that's a really, really great tip. So in terms of then just sort of moving on to cause you talked a lot about risk and assessment and investment and like, I want to talk about more about this charging more that you help your clients to do. Can you tell me, can you give my listeners a few tips on how they can start to do that? Because you said it saved your business. The fact that it's a rocket fuel, the fact that this is actually going to you know, grow that business almost overnight because we're not always will because you're going to be getting more for the thing that you're already selling. How do you, how do you help people to do that?
Robin (00:37:58):
Well, it's kind of a three stage process. But like ultimately, like I think if you've got, if you've got a running a service based business, most people would agree that a better result would be to have half the clients, but double the income. Right. It's a no brainer. Okay. but the thing is a lot of people. So one of the first sort of pricing mistakes people make is that all the gurus and experts tell you to go out and have a look at your competition. So all of the, not so good business coaches out there go and have a look at your competition, the key ingredient, which I thoroughly recommend, go and have a look at competition, see what they're getting up to the key ingredient. They forget to tell you though. And the biggest mistake is assuming that the competition actually know what they're doing.
Robin (00:38:37):
So for example, when it comes to pricing, if you're going out, looking at Dave and Dave's looking at Tricia, Tricia's looking at Stephanie, Stephanie is looking at Robin and Robin's looking back at Dave like which one of those four or five people is actually an expert in pricing. And more often than not, none of them are, they're just looked. They've all looked at the competition. It's shamed that everybody is charging the right amount. And the thing is, when you look at your competition, you're only left with three choices, right? Choice number one is you, you think that the way to get businesses to be cheaper than everybody else. So you're now the cheapest and you want to cut people. What you don't realize is you're actually offering massive discounts compared to the competition without even really realizing it. And so you're destroying any profitability your businesses ever going to have, and you'll end up on the sales cycle of doing which sell, deliver, sell, deliver, sell, deliver, Oh, I get ill go and hold.
Robin (00:39:20):
They can't sell. Can't deliver, take a big deep breath, self liver cell deliver cells. And so it carries on second option is you go middling, cause you don't want to be the cheapest, but you don't want to be the most expensive. You think you'd just sit in the middle, in which case you're still kind of commoditized more in that value kind of space. And then if you think about it, there's only one person who can be the most expensive at the competition. And I don't know about you, Jen, but I would rather, that was me. Certainly the local area, you know as somebody has gotta be the most expensive. And, and if you think about it, somebody out there is the most expensive in your, in your niche. And believe it or not, they're still getting clients. Cause if they were the most expensive, not getting clients, they wouldn't be in business anymore.
Robin (00:40:01):
So kind of it's like when you, when you say it, when I say it like that, probably people are thinking, Oh God, yeah, it's really obvious. Well, this stuff is actually really obvious. So, so the first thing is we've got to look at how we're actually kind of assessing what pricing need to do. And like, to be honest, most people, if they, if they took a more goal focused approach to pricing their products. So if you wanted to, well, a good example of this. So I've worked with a web designer who their goal was to get to three K a month in hosting fees so that during the summer they could just not take on any new clients for projects and spend time with their kids. They were charging at the time, eight pounds a month for their hosting. So I said, cook quick bit of math.
Robin (00:40:39):
So have you got capacity for 400 clients? Of course, international sign of distress goes out and they're like, no, actually, no way. It's like, cool. Well, how many could you serve? And they said about a hundred. So it's like, great. So how, how could you serve 400 people? I said, Oh, well we could hire a couple of people to manage it when we're not there. It's like on three care months, I don't think that's realistic. Cause that's like two or three people full time wages and you get no money out of that. So it's pointless. So the only way round it was for them to effectively charge more for pretty much the same service, albeit we stacked a bit of extra value. So half an hour's worth of support time and things like that. But we put the basic price up for care plans to 50 pound a month.
Robin (00:41:16):
So more than five X, the prices, a couple of interesting things happen. So 40, 40% of their clients left straight away. Oh, Oh dear, that's a shame. But they're the ones that didn't get the value. Their revenues went up two and a half times for support calls overnight. They're sorry for, for care plans. And then support calls dropped by 80%. So it's actually the nuisance pain in the ass clients who didn't get their value, who are left in their droves and what the people that were left with. They're like, yeah, we love what you do is this is great. And actually they did manage to hit. So at that point now they only needed 60 clients at 50 quid a month. And they did that. It took them a while, but you know, a couple of years down the line, they've done it. And, and this is a business that was charging sort of, you know, 300 quid for WordPress websites and eight pound a month for hosting. And the most they'd ever made in a month was 800 pounds. And then now fast forward two years and they're having like seven, eight, nine, 10 K months, you know, which means that they saved up a deposit to buy a house. They've got an office and they were able to afford to get married, which I think is fantastic. That's that for me is like the best outcome from coaching,
Jen (00:42:18):
What a results. That's incredible. And I think, you know, that the example that you've just given us is exactly why we should all be looking at social services. And there is also like, I love the fact that you added move on you one, particularly when you're having that transition for, for current clients and things like that who have kind of, you know, on, on those rates and if you were advising them, you know, they, they want to see that, that there's something being added. Absolutely. But I absolutely do think, and I know you agree with me is that we probably already under charging for what we're supplying. You said so eloquently earlier around, you know, people are very humble. And we don't see the goals that we deliver and actually that it's worth a lot more. And also what people can afford really isn't any of our business it's worth what it's worth. Right. Yeah.
Robin (00:43:06):
Cool. I'm going to make another controversial statement here, Jen. And again, this is going to piss a lot of people off when they listen to this, but this is so important. I'm charging by the hour or charging by the date is fundamentally unethical. So for the, for the benefit of everybody who's listening, I'll give you a quick story. So Jen, in imagine this scenario, right? You're, you're in the market for a website and we agree that we're a good fit. And the proposal that I put forward for you is about 20 hours worth of work to build up your website and at 50 pounds an hour. Is that okay? Sounds good to me. Excellent. So what I forgot to tell you though, Jen after you signed the contract, was that actually I've only been doing it for about six months.
Robin (00:43:43):
Not very good. Your website is not going to fan on, on be found on Google. And in about three months time, when I come back, there'll be a few features which I've missed off. Okay. And we're going to have this awkward conversation where you're going to be like, can you add the blog on? And can you add those products? And a bit of e-commerce on there for me, you know, it'd be really helpful. And I say, yes, I can't Jen, but we've used up your 20 hours. So it's going to be another 10 hours. You're happy to pay for that.
Jen (00:44:04):
Well, yeah, exactly. And that's when you saw again, the problems, isn't it. When your clients start coming back to and going well, no, it's not because you've not delivered on my thoughts on, and that's the key word, isn't it on what I thought you were going to deliver. There's so many assumptions when you charge for time versus results.
Robin (00:44:20):
So a better, a better way to do it. So on the flip side of that, and there's two stages to this, we've got Dave now, Dave is a brilliant web design. He's been doing it for 20 plus years, knows all the ins and outs his websites get five to 10 leads a month for your business because he, he he's doubled down on this. What he's learned about search engine optimization. Now imagine a scenario where Dave's actually so proficient, but he's shit at business. He's still 50 pounds now, but it only takes them 10 hours to do it. So you've got this guy who was much better at delivering the thing who is earning like a third or a half of the money that the less experienced person is earning. On the flip side of that, they've upskilled themselves learns a little bit about packaging, pricing and sales, and he comes to you, Jen. And he says, well, Jen, listen, I can build this website. I can guarantee that you'll get five to 10 solid leads a month that you convert at least two or three of those. And you've got a 10 X ROI in the investment in me, but this website is going to cost you two and a half grand. You'd be like, it's more expensive than the cheap guy who was less experienced. However, he's kind of saying that he's going to guarantee his results for me.
Jen (00:45:24):
And then it comes right back to that. Doesn't it about being confident in it? And this is what I love. You know, everything comes back to what you do confidently charging more. It's not about just charging more. You've got be confident in your results, confident that you know, in what your worth and your people will pay it when you, when you back it up with confidence. And it's all part of becoming a market leader guys, like when you're thinking, you know, going back to what you were saying earlier a bit around being the most expensive in your industry, there's an automatic assumption that you get what you pay for. So if you're the most expensive in your industry, you are automatically perceived as the best in your industry. So bear that in mind when you're looking at your pricing, I think that's key, right?
Robin (00:46:01):
Absolutely. A hundred percent. And you know, again, if that, if you, if you go and do a Google search for somebody and you can't find enough information about them, whether it be Google reviews or testimonials on their website, or just literally can't find anything or look at their website, and it's just a bit rubbish, maybe I know I've talked a lot about websites, everything, isn't all about websites by the way. But if you can't find this stuff about the expert, you're about to invest your hard earned money into you probably want to think twice about whether they're the right person for the job, because somebody who is good at what they do, the results will be able to speak for themselves across all the different social media channels across their website, across Google, you know, and all over the place. Like, cause that person has positioned themselves as an expert. And that's absolutely vital. It's, it's the same reason why, you know, shameless plug time gen. But it's the same reason why I wrote my books. I wanted, I wanted the people to, I want it to be visible. I wanted people to be, to be able to search for Robyn, wait and find a shit ton of information about me because it just, it shows that I've invested in myself to position myself as that expert. And it just builds trust.
Jen (00:47:06):
Oh, a hundred percent. Yes. This year. It was literally my next thing I want to talk to you about with your books, because if you written, is it five bucks,
Robin (00:47:13):
Five books a year six, if you include the Spanish version of take your shot. So if you're into Spanish and you want to read VAP or Ella, you can,
Jen (00:47:22):
You know, we do have some listens even in Spain, so that's good. I'm pleased.
Robin (00:47:27):
Here we go. The rankings need a bit of a boost guy. So if you are Spanish, then please go for it.
Jen (00:47:31):
Awesome. It really does help by the way guys, like again, you know, and Robin is like so hot on this and I watch it him with all, but you know, that's, what's helped his positioning and what he does with his books asking for reviews. And that's like, again, another thing is, like you said, ask your clients, there's testimonials, ask for that, you know, social proof and get people to review, review your stuff because it does help with your positioning. And it's not that people don't want to give them either. They just need a kick up the bum and you know, don't ask, don't get, so, you know, do I do do those Shamus blogs? Do you ask? Because no one ever got there by not asking everybody's successful has done it through asking for that engagement, asking for these reviews. And it really, really does help.
Jen (00:48:20):
So, you know, if you have enjoyed this interview today with Robin, it's just been incredible. It's such a juicy conversation. Seriously, please do review that the Spanish book, if you're in Spain and to be fair, any, you know, I've, I've read take your shots a couple of times now, and it's brilliant. And the reason why I was gonna bring up the books next was because your examples just then they just so beautifully adequate in demonstrating, you know, the different situations that people are in and how by just making those minus small tweaks can make such a significant difference to your business. And for me take your shots is a great example of that. It's, you know, it's a, it's a great story that really demonstrates it and you know, does what it says on the 10 or I do, I do love these kind of blatant epiphany moments that you get when you, when you read something that say profound. And I do believe that, you know, for me, you know, I love all of your books and I've done, I've dipped into a few of them, but take your shot is probably one of my faves. So I definitely go out there and get that on Amazon guys because it's, it's genuinely is mind blowing. I'm really, really enjoyed it. So thank you so much for creating such amazing books, but also, you know, how has that worked for your positioning?
Robin (00:49:38):
Oh, it's made such a massive difference. So the first book I wrote was online business startup, which was a bit more, that was when I was still running the agency, sort of that came out 2015. And that was just, I was getting frustrated about the sort of people's perceptions of sort of web designers and people in the creative industry. So I wrote a book which was, you know, online business startup, which was designed to change those perceptions. And I kind of wrote it for my clients to kind of educate them a bit about how we worked and what to expect from a website and how much we might charge for it and things like that. And it really took off, it's sold tens of thousands of copies. And as a result of that, I started getting invited on to things like podcasts to go and do speaking engagements at various different sort of networking groups.
Robin (00:50:21):
I got featured in, you know, dozens of different articles online, offline, all over the place. And, and that was the start of the shift for, me from that sort of done for you web design marketing work that we were doing, and it's that expert space that kind of coaching consulting and training. So it was transformational. And one of the, one of the reasons I wrote take your shot is because when I sat at the coaching practice in 2016, I needed, I needed a book which supported the coaching practice, which I didn't feel my business startup did. And it was also commercial. I was like, it's one of the best lead magnets I've got, I know that for every hundred copies of take your shot, that gets sent out the door, I get a client from it.
Robin (00:51:02):
So commercially it works incredibly well for me because it abundantly gives value at teachers five of kind of the core coaching principles, which we use that fearless business through a very simple example, which is a story about Russ who was a golf pro, who I worked with sort of close to four and a half years ago now and got great results with. So people can really kind of the way I tell the story, it's like a first person kind of like through, RAICES eyes, if you like. And people can really empathize with that story. So they really get into it. And also there's loads of like really dull, like business books out there that like hundreds of pages long, and it's really difficult because there's so far to actually get into them. So I was like, I want to a short book, less than a hundred pages shortly, you can read on a short haul flight.
Robin (00:51:45):
It's, it's something you can empathize with. So it's gotta be told us a story. And also I wanted to get to get people kind of focused on their future as well. So one of the ways I did that was through like this, one of the star characters is this guy who's like in his fifties, his guy called David he's a business coach happens upon Russ starts helping him out with his business. And actually I modeled David on myself where I want to sort of be in 20 years time, not necessarily on a golf course, cause I don't play golf, but you know, just being able to kind of just mess around and just help people abundantly without there being any expectation that it, because you know, all of the, the, the assets are already out there for David, he's sweating for him. He's a business owner, not necessarily the business business doer. And, so that all comes through and take your shot.
Jen (00:52:29):
Yeah. I want to say it guys, seriously, you have to get it like you will read it and they will be numerous penny drop moments as you're reading it. And like Robin said, it's an enjoyable read. You actually want to get to the end of it. It's not a dip in and out. It's a less, you know, it's almost, it's almost like the shot, the shot, you know, does take your shot. It's almost like a shot glass of a business genius. You really do need, you do to get it. But you know, Robin's written these incredible books. And you know, it's, it's Testament to, you know, to your positioning because I mean, I hear the likes of, you know, Daniel Priestley talking about you, you know, who's really big in the kind of like the key person of influence they've written his own amazing books.
Jen (00:53:13):
It really has taken you to bigger Heights. And, you know, I talk about writing books all the time on this podcast because I really do think it's such a key positioning piece and just waving back very quickly around, you know, cause obviously you've your, business career started out in the website industry back in, back in the day where the houses were going around the wheels, not showing up there to Robin, but, yeah you've kind of seen it from the beginnings of all of that industry all the way to where it is now. And you know, I really want to kind of reiterate Robin's point around if you're looking to do business with someone who doesn't have a good website or a website at all, seriously, have a good thing about who you're doing business with. Because it is a, yet another positioning piece, but it's not just any old positioning piece. Like for instance, Robin's amazing books. That is something that takes you to a new level of positioning by websites or basic positioning, you know, at it's easy to have one, there's no reason why you shouldn't as say, if you don't, then there's serious alarm bells that go off. Right.
Robin (00:54:23):
Absolutely. I mean, the thing is like, you know, websites don't have to be, you don't have to get all singing or dancing ones. There's tons of like DIY web builders out there now, which are pretty professional, you know, the likes of Squarespace. And I hate to say it, but Wix and Weebly, they're a bit,
Jen (00:54:36):
Sorry, don't be the Weebly.
Robin (00:54:39):
The thing is that every new business has to start from somewhere. So, and you can do it. You don't have to spend big bucks to do it. You know, it's something that's really just free and great is Google my business, you know, get a, Google, my business listing, set up, get it verified and smash out 10 reviews as quickly as you can guarantee none of your competition, you've got 10 reviews and you'll start getting picked up organically, you know, and it's totally free. It's a Google product, get 10, 10 videos up onto YouTube, which talk about, you know, answer questions that your clients are asking. Again, that gets, that's a Google product. It's gonna get picked up in Google's organic search rankings, you know, and now all of a sudden you've got what we call real estate on Google search page when somebody searches for Robyn weight or Jen hall or whoever, you know, whichever, whatever your name is.
Robin (00:55:21):
And, that just people don't necessarily even need to start scratching any deeper than that. They're happy to scratch at the surface because that's enough to say, okay, they're serious enough about their business to invest in like several different forms of media. You know, this, like marketing's changed so much. It's like you've brought back some happy memories that Jen did back in 2000 and 2004, you know, marketing like Zuckerberg was in his pants, like building the first version of Facebook and it didn't get out of Harvard for several, you know, even for, I think it's two years after that. So before it started to go into the other universities in 2004, like all you needed was a business card and a website. And we kind of got in at the right time. You know, and if that website was good enough to be found on Google, like our clients were winning like left right and center nowadays though, you've got Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Snapchat, like all of these gazillion different platforms. And you do need to have a presence on all of them and it can be incredibly overwhelming, but the reason why people feel they have to invest so much in all of these free marketing platforms is because they haven't got the business thing right. In the first place. And not fundamentally, they're not charging enough for, for their product or service that they're selling. You know, and imagine the snow marketing is a dancer easier. If you've got to get half the number of clients, because your prices are double what everybody else has.
Jen (00:56:37):
Yeah. A hundred percent. And, you know, just as a little tip and I don't know what you think about this, like, you know, this is where my business coaching journey began. It's all in the niche. You know, part of the reason I think people don't see the value and the reason why they don't raise their prices is because they are not niched enough to see the, the, you know, the, the impact is in the, in the granular. And if you're not granular in how you present yourself, that it's gonna be very difficult to see that value or didn't do what you think about that.
Robin (00:57:05):
Well, I, of course I have an opinion on it, Jen. A lot of people when you ask them who their target market is, they go S and E's why I talked about 6 million small businesses early on 40,000 of those businesses are L I E large. So basically SME stands for all of the businesses. That's not a target market or a niche, and, you know, being a Jack of all trades and a master of none, again, it's just going to like, you're just going to get lost in amongst all the noise. Whereas if you stand up and you say, I help dentists with their Facebook advertising to get new clients, I'm like all of the dentists in the room who were interested in Facebook ads are gonna look up and go. That sounds interesting. They're talking about me. So that niching part absolutely vital you, you've got to double down on it and not, not just, I don't know if you kind of caught it, but it's not just niching on a particular audience. It's an issue on the product side of things as well.
Jen (00:57:53):
Yes. Yes. Big time. Can you give me your, with the examples? Can you give the guys an example of a niche thing on the product side?
Robin (00:58:02):
Yeah. So I take, take VA's for example, virtual assistants. So, you know, they're 10, a penny, they're all over the world. You can get them for expensive in the UK or cheap in Singapore. It doesn't matter. And they're all to varying degrees of, you know, good, bad and the ugly. And, but most VA's will hone in on, on manage your inbox for you. And I'll, I'll be a VA for all businesses. Whereas actually, if the AI comes along and they say they've found their niche coaches, for example, they only work with coaches. That's great. So that's nice and easy there. The market understands them, but an example of product niching is, would be for example right. I'm going to have a concierge service for finding your podcast interviews. That's actually a VA service. It's a more advanced one. It's technical.
Robin (00:58:43):
If they've built up a bank of contacts, you know, who host podcasts all they've got to do is start, you know, driving some outreach to those various podcasts hosts. Next thing you know, they found 10 podcasts for some, for that coach to guest on. What's really interesting here is like most of the A's are charging somewhere between what Singapore sort of eight pounds, $8 an hour, you know, in the UK, you can spend up to sort of 35, 40 pounds now for a good VA. Whereas actually, if you had like a podcast finding service for coaches, you could actually charge for a pack of 10, which might be two and a half thousand dollars, for example. But actually it might be not much more than an hour's work to actually get that podcast, you know, organized get, get the show notes sent across and send the host, the headshots and things like that. And you know, so you're making a 10 X, you're making 10 X more than a traditional VA because you've picked a specific service area to focus on.
Jen (00:59:40):
Excellent. Well, yeah, exactly. Great example. Another one again, if, people are listened to that kind of example, and I've talked about Alessia or a couple of the other episodes, but Alessia Pandolfi who is someone I've worked with, so I can vouch for her work. She's absolutely amazing. Came to me when we worked together in terms of her being my client, she used to be my BA and she was like, exactly, as you described, like, I'm kind of like sick of working all hours under the sun charging per hour. And, you know, she's, she niched into helping coaches, you know, launch online programs and set up summits. And by just, you know, productizing in those areas, she's now selling huge high ticket packages, you know, the amp, but by the hour. And so she's able to save time and make more money.
Jen (01:00:27):
So everything that Robin's been saying like that again is another example of someone who's, who's done it. And if you know, anyone can do this staff, you've just got to be smart about it. And you know, if you are stock invest in someone like Robin, invest in people to help you productize what your services and move away from this charging for the hour, and perhaps invest in someone to help you really shine a light on, you know, your goals and help you with that niching help you with the raising of your prices and getting more comfortable with that. And, you know, know that your price is also on, you know, station to me that they're fluid and they, they can raise as your business becomes more seasoned and, and, you know, op levels and skill and so and so forth. So, you know, you, you've got to make those investments and just kind of buckling background to something we're talking about around skin in the game. And you went broke more follower.
Robin (01:01:22):
I am. Yeah. Progressive property in that side of things. Yeah.
Jen (01:01:26):
Well, he's saying which are probably going to get wrong. So when I go and try to say saying, it always does, but it's, if you don't risk something, you risk everything. Is that right? If I got that right? Yeah.
Robin (01:01:36):
A hundred percent. Yeah, of course it costs more to do nothing. Okay.
Jen (01:01:38):
Exactly. You, risk everything by risking nothing. So you have to, you've got to put skin in the game, you've got to risk something. I, you know, financially energetically you know, situational, whatever that looks like, you've got to put something on the line and you've got to have confidence in what you do and what you're selling. And if you're not, then do get that investment. Do you get that help? Because if you are serious about being a business owner, not the deer is me and roping up and talking about, you've got to take these step forward, that step forward to actually get help to do that. And I genuinely believe, like, I don't know about you Robin, but for me, my situation, I've been a business owner
Jen (01:02:20):
For over 16 years now, since I was 19 years old and I didn't stop properly making money and actually having it, why would call it a serious business? Until probably about six years ago. So I wasted 10 years chasing my tail because I refused like an idiot to invest in the right people to help me take my business forward. Well, I know, I know, and I will start there. I will stand by that Robyn I'm absolutely, you know, it was wasted and I don't want to see anyone else go through that because if you know, there's, there was no need for me to have struggled for that length of time. I definitely believe there's a need for struggle. No, not 10 years, my God.
Robin (01:03:03):
Yeah. But believe it or not, it's that investment in time is one of the best investments you'll love having ever made. Cause you had to go through that pain in order to understand what you needed to do. Like, I believe that business is compounding compounding all the time. Any investments you make in times time or money in your business compounds. So have you heard about, there's a book called the slight edge, which talks about this, where you can either be just above the line or just below the line, but you can be just above or below the line for years. And then all of a sudden you can diverge away from that line in a really positive way or a really negative way. And it's actually, if you can just stay above the line for long enough, eventually things will come true because all of those little bits of investment you've put into your business, whether it be, you know, working with a mentor or coach or paying for a marketing program, or, you know working with clients and, learning about their ups and the downs and sharing that journey with them and what it took to get them better results several years in, eventually that line's gonna start tipping up and you just got to stick it out because that's ultimately what business is about.
Robin (01:04:01):
There's no, there is no quick win, no easy, easy way to make cash in this day and age. I don't believe
Jen (01:04:06):
No. And I think it is if there's a lifecycle that you have to be, that you have to take and I do a hundred percent believe I took them many lessons from that time, you know, I'm not going to say like wasted, you know, my businesses are making money. They just want, you know, I'm an ambitious woman. Like, you know, my businesses I wanted to do well, I was seeing, you know, which we're seeing, you know, now the seven figure launches and all those sorts of things, which I'm really proud of. And, you know, I'm so glad that we got to that stage. It's just a look back at those.The things that held me back that I wish I didn't, you know, I didn't know I was stubborn. You know, I had that stubbornness I can do, I'm so stubborn and I'm, I can do on my end. I don't need help and I'm fine. And I'll just work it out. And it's all trial and error and yes, to a certain extent. That's true. I just think that if I just go out of my own way a little bit quicker, I could have been here a little bit quicker, but Hey, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing,
Robin (01:05:04):
But the thing is like, Jen, that's one of the things I've always admired about you the most is your tenacity to like, just knock it down and put in the hard yards, no matter like how well or how shit things are going. Like you've always been consistent like throughout. And I think kind of like you're leading from the forefront. People can learn an awful lot from that.
Jen (01:05:21):
Thank you. And did say back to you, I mean, again, you're another example of somebody who's, you know, not just, you know, had that kind of heart, that, that hard drive through business, right. From the, from the ground upwards and stuck with it. And, you know, through thick and thin, you've been through, you know, already the 2007 recession, you've bounced back from that. And you're also doing incredibly well at the moment, you know, throughout this pandemic showing, you know, guys look at this, this is why you need to be aiming high. This is why you need to be becoming confident about what you do aiming for that market leadership status. Because, you know, again, Robin is again, proof that when you can do that, you can, you can weather any storm. You can create your own economy, regardless of what everything else is doing, because you're always going to be seen as the best and therefore, you know, even a small percent percentage of our planet, put it investing money into you is a lot.
Jen (01:06:14):
So, you know, aim for that because, you know, it just goes to show that you stick at it, keep aiming for the next day that raising the bar slightly every time. And you will consistently stay at that at that level. It's gonna pay back. So honestly, I'm going to, I'm going to cut it here because Robin, you've just given so much value in just over an hour of your time. And I really appreciate that, you know, you've taken this time with us to stay with us and share all of these amazing tips and insights. And I think there's going to be so many are hard moments, but before I cut you too short, I just want people to know where they can go. Obviously we mentioned the very beginning your group remind people where they can go to a group.
Robin (01:06:55):
Yeah. So if you head on to Facebook and then search for confidently charged more, you should be able to find the group. And then I've got a little gift plan for everybody, Jen, as well. So in terms of like take your shot, if you want to copy of it. And you're based in the UK you can get a paperback by heading on over to fearless.biz, click on the resources link, and you're be able to apply for a free copy there on the proviso though that you do promise to leave a review on Amazon. So it's a little gift from me to all of you
Jen (01:07:21):
Amazing. And if I haven't got that link already, I'll get that off of Robin and stick that in the show notes. So you could go there, head there and click that link and get hold of that. But that's really generous. And guys yet please do review because it makes all the difference. You know, not just to Robin's rankings, but in order for other people to also take the value that, you know, this is, this is something that I, I know because I've known Robin awhile. This is how he gives back to those that perhaps aren't at the right stage for the full on investment as well. So, you know, it's how you can reach much further, you know, to helping these people who need that, that, that kind of like the beginning of their journey. This is how that's going to begin for them and say, please make sure that you do review this because it's really going to help, you know, other people as well. I think it's, it's really important. And so you've got the gift. And also you've got YouTube channel. How you, yeah,
Robin (01:08:11):
Yeah, I've got a YouTube channel. So we just started a new series actually called fix your business where I business owners, interesting business owners, and do a bit of life coaching with them. And we we actually get some screen shares up. We go through some coaching models for their businesses and try and transform their business in sort of the space of 30 to 40 minutes. So there's it, there's, again, there's a shit ton of value that for anybody kind of either just starting out or feeling like they're a bit stuck that YouTube channel is a good place to go see, and just gone to jump onto YouTube and search for Robin Waites within the, on the end of it.
Jen (01:08:38):
Fantastic. Excellent. Again, I'll stick that in the show notes as well. So you can binge on all of the Robin goodness and there is there there's a lot out there, but it's all worth while like you need to, you need to spend that time and, and look at this stuff because it's, just fantastic. And again, thank you so much, Robin. I really appreciate it. You know, spending your time here today. I hope you've enjoyed our conversation.
Robin (01:09:00):
Of course I have. It's always a pleasure, Jen. Thank you. Fabulous. Thanks.

Aug 05

How to think like a Market Leading CEO

By Jennifer Hall | Podcast

If you have plans to scale for huge business growth then it’s imperative that you become a CEO in your business but becoming a CEO is all in the mindset and the behaviours you adopt. 

In this episode I’m chatting with Andy Moore (my business partner AND fiancé) who happens to also be a market leading CEO on how to start thinking and adopting the behaviours of a CEO so you can uplevel your business strategy and sky rocket your business growth.

Useful Links:-

Book onto my Evolve & Elevate Strategy Session – http://www.jen-hall.com/strategysession

Book a Call with Jen  – bit.ly/claritycallpodcast

Download my free Ultimate Guide to Becoming a Market Leader – http://bit.ly/MARKETLEADERGUIDE

Send your emails to jen@jen-hall.com

Read Full Transcript

(00:00):
Please note this transcript is machine generated so it is not perfect and should be used for reference only, you will get the best from the podcast by listening to it in it's designed format.
On today's episode, we're talking about how to think more like a market leading CEO. And we have the amazing Andy Moore on the podcast episode, who happens to me, my partner in business partner in crime and fiance. He is a market leading CEO himself. So I'm really pleased to be talking to him about how we use that strategic thinking to help grow our adventure travel company, ever track. Hello and welcome to this next episode and very special episode of the expert on rival podcast for many, a moon. Now I've been promising you to bring on my amazing partner who also happens to be my fiance, Andy Moore where we're going to be talking about how to think like a market leading CEO and fortunately, and it is a market leading CEO. So he's a perfect person for this topic, funnily enough. So thank you, Andy, for being in the room with us today. Awesome.
(01:02):
Okay, nice to finally join you really it's been a while.
(01:04):
It has been awhile. It's been one of those things. I think the thing is, you know, just to be perfectly honest, you know, locked down has been something that's really kind of sculpted this plan with the whole homeschooling thing, China like passing ships in the night, like you swapping over. So it's been quite difficult to get to this point, but we're here now and it's a juicy topic and I really can't wait to dive in just before we do dive in. I just want to remind you guys when I say remind you, and also let you know that I've made a complete mistake. I've been telling you for the last two weeks that the next the next elevate and evolve strategy session, where you learn all about how to go from where you are now to become a marketing business was actually happening on the 15th completely wrong day.
(01:46):
Guys, if you had clicked on the link, you would have noticed that will be Wednesday next week. So my huge apologies for that. So you'll actually see that it's on, I think it's the 12th. Hopefully I'll get this right because Wednesday next week. So if you're listening to this as a fresh episode, do you make sure that if you're interested in coming on one of these strategy sessions, they're only 20 pounds. They're incredible sessions where I take you through a proven process. I take both my clients through that both myself and Andy have been through that has generated millions of pounds to help us get to that Katrin category of one market leader position. So do you make sure that you hit the link and go and book yourself on? Cause it's going to be a great session and it's going to be one last one for a couple of months as well. So if you want to get in, make sure you're in that as a couple of couple more slots left
(02:32):
Jason.
(02:34):
So anyway the first point I have on my list day is all around giving yourself more time to think strategically because yeah, I think the thing is, is that a lot of the times, especially when you know both you and I have done this, when we first go into business, we kind of Chuck it out there. We like, we're going to launch next week. We're just going to do this thing and see how it goes. And you know, I think that approach is great when you, when you first start, but I think moving forward, it's a really haphazard way of thinking and it's not great for kind of longterm planning. I don't know what your view on this says.
(03:09):
Yeah, I think you're right there. You know, most, most people I think, and I think I, me myself, I've, I've, I've done it. You kind of just crack all my stuff cause you think it's important, but I think you're right there. You need to have some form of plan at least. Even if it's the start of the year or whenever that you, you think you're going to make this plan and ultimately think about what you're going to do, like, what are you going to sell? When are you going to sell it? And also as well, what sort of things you're going to put out there? So I think, yeah, a hundred percent, you've got to have that strategic thinking
(03:38):
A hundred percent. I mean, a few of the clients over the last couple of weeks have been like, again, I want to, I want to launch. And also immediately everyone's reaction to launching is to just suddenly blurt out, but you're actually missing out on a very key piece. And before you launch something, particularly if you're launching something new, because what your market says they're going to do and what they actually do are usually two different things. And so what you want to do actually, before we start blurting out and going on a blatant launch is actually start thinking about, okay, who's actually within my audience already that we can start to sell teas, that we can do that kind of like one-on-one personal outreach to test the waters because your warmest audience is your best audience. And so going out there to a purely cold audience and hoping for the best, isn't the best strategy.
(04:24):
So actually tagging on a personal outreach from the beginning is great. And I just want to shout out actually a client of ours, Victoria, Tratos, he's just pasted in our, in our elevate mastermind group to say that she's literally just launched, she's done the personal outreach. I'm still waiting on the final confirmation of like, you know, where she is, the daughter is not finished, but she's just got five people in a part of that strategy. I don't think she's properly launched it yet and has been through personal outreach. That's where she's got quite a lot of these people from. So, you know, so, so proud of her for doing that. But you know, doing that person outreach really validate your ideas first and foremost. And that's what a lot of people forget. And so you want to be staging it out. So you don't want to just like blurting it out, not really spending much time. Do you want to be making sure that you think about it strategically, you know, giving yourself time for that person outreach then thinking about, okay, so what's the next stage in the game so that you're not trying to do all, all the things at once. And I know like forever track, we, we had a meeting didn't we beginning of the year went to hotel didn't we?
(05:26):
Yeah, we were trying to think of the whole year didn't we I'm thinking of Roy. Okay. I mentioned then about sort of planning out the year and we sort of had to look okay, we know we've got some new things on the agenda. When are we going to sell them? How are we going to sell them? And we kind of next thing, you know, you've got sort of six months plan. They were like, wow, this looks cool.
(05:45):
And it is, it's like, it just brings that confidence, doesn't it? So you know what you're selling and when, but it doesn't have to be rigid. Does it like, you know, things have changed this year for us, some of the,
(05:54):
Yeah, I think we can all agree that, you know, in March when, you know, Mr. Johnson sort of said, okay guys, you can't leave your home except for an hour, which was lovely then you know, that, that made us all think differently of our businesses and we've all had to adapt. So yeah, I think that plan more or less had to go out the window, but you know, it's always, even though we're, we, we, it's nice to have a plan, you know, stuff happens and you've got adapt and move forward. And we created a new one and you know, we look at what we've done over the last, like three or four months from new ideas that sprouted from a challenging situation.
(06:30):
A hundred percent, I think something else that's really helped us in terms of I've ever track as well, is actually thinking about productizing, those processes of like, you know, this Facebook ads campaign that we've got, you know, we actually productize that system and how we will the outreach time. Yes. We tweak it and prove it don't we? But yeah, I think that that's really helpful.
(06:53):
Yeah. And like you said earlier about what like, like Victoria, wasn't it who went out to a warm miss audience and I think that's a nice, easy strategy to do a hundred percent do it. We've had this campaign that we've done before to warm audiences, to cold launches audiences. But the point is we've learned what we needed to do. So yeah, we had a kind of out of the box sort of campaign really that we could say, okay, let's launch this now. This is the product we're going to launch it along. And yeah, like you said, we we've had that almost. What does it productized our campaign, if you like especially the the competition campaign, we ran
(07:31):
A hundred percent, so it's a step by step. We know exactly what we're doing every time. There's no guesswork. We also know, we know because we've launched it so many times now we know conversion rates. So we know X amount of spending equals that amount of sales. So if you're doing it haphazardly every single time, not really plussing it out, it means that you never really can measure the metrics. You never really know what's going to happen. And then you live your business on a hope and, you know, in a whim and hoping that you're going to bring some money in, you want proven campaigns, proven strategies that you know are going to work. And you know, you to find that out, obviously if you just try them, but, you know, tweaking and measuring and testing and seeing what you can do to improve the Mitch time is definitely the way to go. So something else that Andy, you have been amazing at, in a you've moved from, well, actually I was gonna say you've moved from doing the do relatively quickly, but almost to a certain extent, I would say you immediately outsourced you immediately delegated. So tell us about some of the ways that you immediately went about, you know, bringing yourself to that business owner level versus the job, the Dewar and the run of the mill.
(08:37):
Yeah, sure. So, I mean, in the beginning there was, you know, I think any business owner or entrepreneur will look at the things that you've got to do and there's things on there that you don't really enjoy. You know, we all do that. And we're like, okay, that's the first thing you could outsource? You know, especially if it was like, for me, I think one of the things, things in the beginning, I kind of didn't really enjoy. It was the Google ads. So I found an expert at that and I handed that off and it took me, it took away then, because I knew then that, that Google has lady who knew it was got a really successful business now. And she was also growing her business as well. Next thing you know, I was getting an influx of leads, convert into sales, and that was purely from the decision that I, it would have taken me probably 12 months longer to get to that stage.
(09:20):
But I went to an expert who, you know, obviously you've got to look at the budget there, can we afford it? And we could you know, we have a relatively sort of short budget, but it made a difference. And that was the first major thing. You know, there's other things then as you move in, as you move in down the line, and you're thinking of the design process, you know, you could spend all day on Canberra if you want it to, but is that really gonna move your business on just because you create one lovely ad, you know that, but then why don't you outsource the design, you know, to someone else it could mean that you can actually focus on the stuff that makes the difference. Obviously we're here today talking about you know, thinking like a market leader, CEO. And I think, yeah, as if we're talking best in the world, I know we're going to focus on that in a minute, but we're the best in the world really do everything themselves, or would you give it to the best in the world to do
(10:07):
A hundred percent? And I think something that you've done really well is actually you had your business hat on from the outset. I see a lot of marketers that moment, particularly towards coaches around you just want to do what you love and all of those things. And that's really lovely. The fact that yes, you might just want to do what you love doing, but you have to really look at that and go, am I creating a very underpaid, very stressful job for myself? You know, you, it's great that you love what you do, but you have to step away from it. And something, I think that you've done really well, Andy is to look at, okay, so I could be the person that takes all of these tracks and takes these people at the mountains. You'd love tracking, right? You've killed yourself this weekend, just gone. He's been limping into the office guys the weekend before you were down with chafing, from being going to try and you Donald finding the bomber and what it, all these other adventures. But, and so, you know, that is in your blood. You do, you have a passion for it, but you can't physically grow a business and take every single person. Well, how many got about 600 people in the last campaign?
(11:14):
Yeah, it was 678 people. 600 trips. Yeah.
(11:18):
So shuts and just that last campaign, two weeks to go up you know, Kilimanjaro. So, you know, it's in order to scale, you have to step away, you cannot do it. And what I love about you is that you've created a business around your passion, but at the same time, you've really accepted that if you want to scale and you want this business, the business to be a success, you have to allow for growth. And so we worked really hard. Didn't we on finding amazing suppliers that are on the same wavelength as us, you know, all of that has a bit about that process. Yeah. I mean, in
(11:54):
The beginning we just, you know, in terms of the journey we've been on, I mean, we're coming up to sort of four and a half years now. We had different suppliers in the beginning. The we that we have now, I think you know, any, any part businesses or lesson, and we were looking at the best in the world or the quality of trips that we wanted to run feedback off people, you know, we've used the product. And then we found you know, some suppliers who were sort of thought like us, you know, that small things you know, from branding to arrivals, to quality, to all sorts of sustainability stuff in the pool you know, and they were on the same way then. So the customer journey to them was the same as ours. So yeah, a hundred percent like you went to what we said that about doing it myself. I mean, yeah, if I, if I was going out there and I'm taking all these trips, I wouldn't be able to have the thinking time, the strategic time, where, where you scale, you can't do that. If you're doing it all the time, you have to, you have to bring in other people to do it.
(12:50):
And you say, physically could take that amount of people. So it would stump the growth, excuse me, frog in the throat and the capacity isn't there. You know, so you literally can't grow beyond that. So the only way to do it is through delegation and you did that right from the outset. And then as you said, you know, as you grew and as the money came through, you were like, okay, so what do I not need to be doing? What am I not great at no offense. You're not going to Canada. We found that out. And so it was like, okay, so let's get someone else to focus on that, you know, filling in with a website sitting there, let's get someone else to do that, even though you've done a really good job at delegating all of these things. So you can, you can look at the big ideas that are gonna make the biggest impact in, in terms of revenue, in terms of customer experience.
(13:37):
And as you say, being, being the best in the world, and we may as well talk by it, cause you've mentioned a few times, and I think this is something that, you know, something I really love. And I've, I've taken a board from you as well as, you know, looking at that. What would the best in the world look like to me, the technical terms that you guys have heard me talk about this a lot for me, it's about being looking at that with the best in the world looked like. So you can look at that category of one status where there is no other business out there like it. And so tell us about that, that, you know, this kind of motto that we've all taken on here in, in the office and how we kind of use that to, to get better at what we do.
(14:17):
Yeah. It becomes part of the culture and it's deep rooted really in, in what you do. You know, we have, whether it's best in the world from, if you apply into a potential customer, you know, what would the best response be? You know, to them, would it be just a couple of lines just saying, Oh yeah, look at this. Or, you know, or would it have a bit of personality in there? We'd have even a video in there which we've obviously used, you know, that to me, if I was a potential customer, what would the best response be? To me that's just one part of it. And I think if you can look at all the different parts of the business and think, how would that be the best the world then, then is that, that's how you suddenly before long you'll start to notice, Oh, we're doing something Rocky yet. You know, I know that people will notice as well. The next thing you know, you've got a bunch of customers that love you and because they they're thinking, are these guys actually a pretty good,
(15:07):
Oh, a hundred percent. And I think, yeah. I mean, and it's something you, you kind of weed it out, like as we're discussing ideas and we're throwing around or should we do this or should we do that? And we're trying to make a decision on the, on the best way forward. And Andy just drops the bomb every time. It's always like, become my old God that spoke again, what we're the best in the world. But like, but no. Yeah. What would they do? And, you know, and it's brilliant because it just challenges everything. Cause you're like, no, actually what would the best in the world look like? What do we need to do that, you know, to create that experience, that's what we do. And you're always challenging and thinking, like you said, like, you know, the kind of email that we sent back to the customer, how can we make that even better?
(15:49):
Like you said, adding a video onto it's thinking outside of the box and thinking about how can you utilize all of the resources around you to create something on like anything else? So again, the blimming amazing you know, so simple concept that we've taken on board and it's really helped us take the business forward. And something else I think you do really well as well, is this thing about taking calculated risks and I genuinely believe this is one of your success secrets now I'm I, what, to someone else, I might seem like a very risky person, but then you take it to another level. But also I think, you know, I genuinely believe that's, what's allowed, ever track to grow as big as it has done to become that market leading company, because you've really pushed the boundaries on things like that and something I think I've talked about Rob Morris about, I tied it interview recently with Robin wait, which by the way will be being at soonish. But we spoke on there about this, this Rob Moore thing around, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. And you know, not risking keeps you small and yeah. Tell us a bit, talk to me, Andy, about your risk taking a bit of teas.
(17:06):
Oh yeah. I mean, you know, I, I do like sort of dangerous things say in life so risk, I'm not risk averse, but that way, but no, I think yeah, I think you've got to try things to find out if they work. I think I think in the DNA of a, of an entrepreneur is naturally to take risks. And yeah, if I see an opportunity, I probably am more of a I'll, I'll go for it sort of person rather than spending a month thinking about that decision. I'll just go for it. And yeah. You know, you, you can even call that a little bit of luck, but I like to think of it as though if there's an opportunity there, why wait, you know, you've got to go for it sometimes. Obviously there's, you know, don't just fritter away budget for no reason.
(17:52):
Sometimes that decision that risk could be taken on more stuff cause you then lumbered with a more of an overhead. And you think if that is a risk you're right, but then you don't want to employ too late because especially because we've already, I mean, just obviously used to have a track as an example, because we had an influx of new customers. Those people need nurturing looking after. And I could I do that on my own or just with one or two staff? No, we need, we need more people and that again is taking a risk, but without doing that, then you're going to be left behind your customer service isn't then going to be the best in the world. So yeah, I think when it comes to risks, you know, if there's a decision you know, have a think over it. But if, if you feel like, and trust your gut, if you feel like it's going to work, go for it.
(18:38):
And I think you've, you've cracked on a really good point that I think that it's also about belief. You got to have belief in your belief, in your business that it's going to grow. And I think you honestly, you're, you've got like a Bulletproof mindset when it comes to this. Like you're just so enthusiastic. You've got all the faith and all the belief in the world, right from the outset of creation and you just go for it. And I would say, if anything, you've, you have taken on too early and I'm going to be completely honest. Like me and Andy had conversations in the early days, verging on arguments around. I don't know whether this is a good idea, me speaking. And he's like, yes, it is. It's going to be the best thing it's going to allow the business to grow. And then, you know, I'm speaking from, you know, fear, Andy speaking from a belief and a vision for what's what's to come, which is why I said at the beginning of this, that actually, I feel like Andy takes it to another level and it really has been the key to it.
(19:34):
So if you're going to learn from anybody, learn from Andy on that, because taking those risks really have paid off. Sometimes they don't, sometimes they don't pay off. We take risks with certain individuals. We learn from that. And you know, and then that's the point. It's not what you're learning, learning from these things. But you know, you can build that up over time and it's about, you know, I'm going to do what you think, but it's about taking risks and steps, like smaller risks to begin with bigger risks as you grow. Because for instance, when it comes to like looking at budget for a recent campaign that we did, was it 300 pounds we put in, first of all, to that
(20:10):
The very first cafe here, we spent 333 pounds and made 80,000 pounds of revenue, which was like, awesome.
(20:16):
A big sign. Isn't it. It's all going well. But actually, you know, looking back, we should have probably been braver. Really both of it should have been should way to kind of go, right. We're going to focus, speak to, we did 11,000 in the last one. Yeah. And it produced just shy of one, you know, one and a half million, which is amazing. But I feel like we should have probably taken that risk a bit earlier. Right? Like it's pay off,
(20:40):
You know, things are meant to be sometimes. And you know, we've done a lot of investment. I mean, not to go too much into it, but you know, a system development. So I feel that sometimes you, you, you, you can't scale to too early, like you know, think of all the things that we'd have to look after, if we didn't have what we have in place now with the increase in customers that we've had. So, you know, like it's great taking risks, but sometimes timing is everything a hundred percent, you know,
(21:05):
The next thing, isn't it, isn't that like, yeah. It's about timing, but actually having those numbers force you to grow quicker and not per game more, the more time you give yourself sometimes the worse it is.
(21:16):
Well, it's just like, COVID, isn't it. I think it's forced everyone to have to think differently to move quicker. I think it's brought a lot of different things on more like 10 years, like loads, more people are working remotely. Now you've got all the people back to the pubs and all these pubs and restaurants. You've got to think better. They've got apps. We're only in the beginning, it was Wetherspoons provided service to the table. Now you've got every single pub under this, under the, under the sun having to do it. So you think that's just a small example of industries? It is. Yeah. You just, just wait for your point. It's brought to the table, but it's you know, so that's just a small example, a example, but you said earlier about belief, you have to have that belief. It doesn't matter what you do, doesn't matter what your education is. Doesn't matter what your background is. Just have the belief that it's going to work out for you, I think is half the job. You know, because if you've got the belief that it's going to work, you're halfway, there was it, was it if you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're probably right. And it's the same with business. I think you have to believe that it'll work. As soon as that negativity side starts creeping in, you know, it'll notice and it'll creep in,
(22:23):
Oh no, I a hundred percent agree with you. And like I said, you'll Bulletproof on that mindset, which is just brilliant. And, you know I, I absorb as much as that positive energy as I possibly can because it, you know, I've had had to overcome huge fear of failure in the past big time. And I think we all experienced it to some level some, some more than others, but you, yeah, you have to have the belief in what you're doing. If you don't back it with confidence, if you don't back it with belief, then you know, like you said, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, what will be, will be because of how you, you approach it. So yeah, taking those calculated risks, having belief moving forward and actually thinking, you know, it almost expanding before that tipping point is created, has, has been, as you know, is, is real CEO thinking as it is thinking ahead, which is the next thing, which is my next point.
(23:12):
I think it's really important to think of think ahead and to understand how the landscape might be changing for your industry and almost, you know, we were, we were talking about topics before this and we've got so much you want to talk about on this topic. We had to call a couple of weeks, a couple of them off, but like, thinking ahead, I think really feeds into like, Andy wants to talk about in another episode is around that leadership around going, okay, so what's coming in and how can we use those changes to really lead in our field? I think that's really, really important. You know, how we've had to think ahead, haven't we, in terms of travel company COVID COVID or you pronounce it you know, perhaps second way with rescheduling and things like that.
(23:58):
Yeah. There's a lot, I think whenever you're thinking ahead, like it's quite typical, I've got a question on the board last week. Cause what, what could you do today? That would matter a year from now? And typically one of the team put murder, which I thought was hilarious, but the whole point of that was that we are thinking ahead and what would, what can we do today that would matter in the future? Cause you are thinking ahead. And sometimes it's thinking about things a little bit because I, I think hardly any, anyone, hardly, anyone, a lot of people don't do enough thinking they just do because they think it's all, this is the one I meant to be doing. Sometimes we're just stepping back sometimes and thinking, okay, it's a bit like chess, you know, you got to think two or three moves ahead. You know, I was, I was always awful at chess, but sometimes it's you're thinking ahead I think in a bit more strategically and asking yourself big questions, what are the best in the world? Look like? You know, what could we do more here? What is the right thing to do? Like obviously we've had we've we've covered recently. What's the right thing to do for our customers.
(25:02):
Yeah. Because the cause technically the code go, but is it the right thing that they do? And it's the doing that risk assessment, making sure we're doing the right things on, on behalf of them, you know, as well as the country we're going to and so and so forth. Yeah. So thinking ahead is really, really key, excuse me. And in terms of all the frogs and the rates, but the, yeah, the, the, the one thing that we're looking at we've we talked about this a lot and we've utilized the whole, you call it the golden 90 minutes where we use that time to focus on the business only and have that. And it's 90 minutes for a reason because it's a good length of time. You can stretch it to two hours if you don't get a focusing, but just having that time out to really focus in on what's going on, rather than again, getting caught up with the D because when you first start out doing anything, you will inevitably be doing some of the dude.
(25:48):
There's no way you can start like delegating. Every single thing, you know, Andy said about delegating the Google ads, he did it himself to begin with because he had to learn it. And that's how you go, you start doing things yourself. But you know, you still have to make sure you implement that time and suddenly realize actually for our team here is that we need to start implementing things like that for them as well, because they are doing the do. But even then themselves, like, and again, this is something we'll talk about. Another episode is around giving them these projects that they can do and giving them that time protection to say, you've got 90 minutes, take yourself off to, to focus on it. Otherwise what I'm aware of you with that project what's happening. And it's somebody didn't get done because of all the other admin that has to get done and things never move forward. And that will be you the same thing. If you don't start protecting your time, actually put, you know, allocating it and saying, well, no distractions. Nobody's going to me phones off I'm in another room. I'm going to be doing this particular thing. Cause that's the, the thing is not just sitting down with a blank head space. Right. I mean, yeah,
(26:52):
Yeah, yeah. You've got to, I mean sometimes you've, you've got to think, right. Okay. What actually have I got to do, but when you have got those lists of things, you know, don't just sit down at a table and go, okay, I'm 90 minutes now, happy days, like I'll get coffee or shall I sit by the TV? No, I think it's gotta be productive time. I always have the you know, 90 minutes and this 90 minutes thing, it's kind of, you know, it's not a new thing for us as entrepreneurs, other entrepreneurs use it, but we've kind of chosen it and gone with it and got, okay, this is the time I'm going to use. And this is only spent on growing the business. This isn't responding to an inquiry, you know, this isn't sending you know, commenting on a Facebook post.
(27:29):
This is doing something strategically, whether that's working on an email campaign and automation, either a better Facebook ads, something like that that moves your business forward. And I think those 90 minutes or hour and a half, and if you did it every day in six months time, that is a lot of time that you've spent growing your business. Which, which makes a huge difference. And then, you know, before long, your boat is moving way faster. It's now got a, you know, a twin turbo engine on the back, not just alls, you know, you're going that fast.
(28:00):
Oh, I love that analogy. And the thing is when you look up the kind of the dictionary term of what a CEO is, a CEO is somebody who can step away from the business and it will still work. And it will still do its thing. And it was still turnover, you know, revenue and so and so forth. And really, if you're serious about becoming a market leader, then you need to be really developing these, these thought processes and working towards that. You know, if you're not up for that, if you're not up for being a market leader, if you're not up to, you know, for being the CEO and you still want to remain as the doer, then that's fine. And that's a choice and that's what you do. But you have to recognize that if that's your goal is to actually start creating your business.
(28:41):
This could be also about itself that potentially maybe one day even sell it. You have to be able to step away from the day to day. You've got to be able to move into that C role CEO role. Otherwise it's just not going to happen. You can't scale, you can't grow. There's always going to be a capacity on revenue and capacity on your growth. So hatefully these things that we've spoken about today, we saw it so much. You want to talk about it, but I know we could go on forever and ever say, you know, I'm decent. I'm going to drag him in more often. I got a little bit of time back in the safe until the second wave hits, and then we're back to square again. But we've got a bit of time back now. So I'm going to be grabbing in Andy for a few more episodes as well.
(29:18):
He may even be attempting, he's not told him this yet in a few episodes on his own. So you might even get a few episodes. Formalities talk about is, you know, the way he approaches business which is just amazing. And it's, you know, it's really helped us move forward over the last, you know, four and a half, five years with, you know, with all the businesses that we're involved in. So you know, just so you know, guys, I probably didn't introduce Andy the proper way. Some of you have already had me talk about Andy may already know this, but Andy is a business coach in our elevate mastermind under the market eater league brand. And we are, you know, he's in there and he's supporting all of our elevate members with their businesses, helping them with things like, you know, Facebook ads, mindset, getting, you know, getting that belief, thinking more strategically thinking more like a CEO that really is his specialism. So if you're wanting to chat to us about becoming a part of elevate, please do make sure you book a call with me. Or if you, if you
(30:17):
Want to chat to, that's also fun.
(30:20):
But yeah, we can book a call with me, talk about how we can get you into elevate and see if we can help you start making those moves and taking the strategic steps towards becoming a market leading business, that number one choice in the market. So yeah. Do you make sure you click the link in the show notes to book that call? I'd love to speak to you and yeah. Well, we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thanks very much, Andy. You've been awesome.
(30:44):
No worries. Thanks for listening guys.